(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Outdoor fan, switch and receptacles

  1. #1
    DIY Member rosem637's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    38

    Default Outdoor fan, switch and receptacles

    Have a roof covering my patio and now want to install a couple receptacles, a switch and a ceiling fan on the framing members under the roof. Power from the panel will go first into a GFI outlet. Then I want to add another outlet that will be powered from the LOAD side of the GFI. I am a little confused on how to take power to the switch.

    In the diagrams below is one way more preferred over the other as far as the load side of the GFI giving power to the other receptacle and switch(1) or should the power for the switch be grabbed with the line side of the GFI(2)?

    All wires will be run in PVC conduit underground and along wood framing of support for roof.

  2. #2
    DIY Member rosem637's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    38

    Default

    Here is the 2nd way showing the switch for the fan being powered from the LINE side of the GFI.

  3. #3
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Posts
    25,679

    Default fan

    The fan should be high enough that it would not need to be on the GFCI, so either wiring diagram will work. I, personally, do not like to see stationary motors wired through a GFCI because of false tripping, so I would use the second one.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  4. #4
    DIY Member rosem637's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    38

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hj View Post
    The fan should be high enough that it would not need to be on the GFCI, so either wiring diagram will work. I, personally, do not like to see stationary motors wired through a GFCI because of false tripping, so I would use the second one.
    I received this answer on another forum:
    In (2) you're pulling the neutral from the LOAD side of the GFCI, and the feed from the LINE side, the GFCI will see that as an imbalance as whats going out on the LOAD black(feed) does not equal the LOAD white(neutral) coming back, causing the GFCI to trip.

  5. #5
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Posts
    25,679

    Default Gfci

    Correct. I hadn't noticed that he was not connecting the fan's neutral to the line side of the GFCI along with the hot wire, but that is still the option I would use, once that was done.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  6. #6
    DIY Member rosem637's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    38

    Default

    One more quick question. I know I will need a "wet" location rated fan but what time of box will I need to support this from being that we will use PVC conduit?



    Thanks

  7. #7
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Posts
    25,679

    Default fan

    quote; I know I will need a "wet" location rated fan Why? do you plan on hosing down your ceiling or is the roof leaking? IT has been months since Cave Creek even had "wet" anything. You either install a conventional box, securely anchored to the joists then connect the conduit to it, or you use a "fan support box" and do the same thing.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  8. #8
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    2,523

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hj View Post
    you use a "fan support box" and do the same thing.
    this is good advice

  9. #9
    DIY Member rosem637's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    38

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hj View Post
    do you plan on hosing down your ceiling or is the roof leaking? You either install a conventional box, securely anchored to the joists then connect the conduit to it, or you use a "fan support box" and do the same thing.
    The underside of the porch roof will be, at LEAST, a damp location, it's NOT permissible to use boxes listed for dry locations.

  10. #10
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Posts
    25,679

    Default box

    quote; The underside of the porch roof will be, at LEAST, a damp location, Almost impossible in Arizona, but common in Michigan. When my home was built, they used the same fans on the porch as they did in the family room.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  11. #11
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,434

    Default

    Out of curiosity, assuming you have a decent roof, why would the underside be considered a wet or damp area? Fog? There should be no leaks in a decent roof, otherwise, the entire house would be considered a damp area!
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  12. #12
    DIY Senior Member kreemoweet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Seattle. WA
    Posts
    371

    Default

    The National Electrical Code specifically states that "roofed open porches" are to be classified as Damp Locations. In my part of the world, that
    classification is more than justified, but I suppose not so much in drier areas.

  13. #13
    DIY Member rosem637's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    38

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hj View Post
    When my home was built, they used the same fans on the porch as they did in the family room.
    Maybe you have have wet location fans both in and out. Hopefully.

    Chapter 1
    Definitions

    Location, Damp. Locations protected from weather and not subject to saturation with water or other liquids but
    subject to moderate degrees of moisture. Examples of such locations include partially protected locations under canopies, marquees, roofed opened porches, and like locations, and interior locations subject to moderate degrees of moisture,such as some basements, some barns, and some cold-storage warehouses.

  14. #14
    DIY Member rosem637's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    38

    Default

    ANy thoughts on if this arrangement would function or would it cause the GFI to trip? The duplex, which is shown at ceiling level, will have both halves switch controlled.


    Thanks

  15. #15
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,434

    Default

    Since nothing is connected to the load in your diagram, the GFCI is out of the picture, so no, it should not trip. Only when you have something on the load side (or if it has receptacles in it rather than a GFI CB) is the GFCI going to trip on a fault.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

Similar Threads

  1. GFCI, Dimmer Switch, Outdoor Lamp Posts with Receptacles
    By hagler in forum Electrical Forum discussion & Blog
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-27-2012, 05:22 PM
  2. Receptacles per room
    By Cam525 in forum Electrical Forum discussion & Blog
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 07-07-2011, 03:00 PM
  3. Receptacles
    By Ian Gills in forum Electrical Forum discussion & Blog
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 07-17-2009, 06:35 PM
  4. Outdoor Motion Detecting Lights switch location
    By Lakee911 in forum Remodel Forum & Blog
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-12-2008, 03:52 PM
  5. Outdoor 3-way switch and timer
    By Hillel in forum Electrical Forum discussion & Blog
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-20-2007, 11:24 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •