Well pump issue or electrical problem?

wellnowwhat · May 14, 2013

I have a Goulds submersible pump (model #76505412, 230v, 1/2hp, max amps: 6.0) that was installed in 1996 before I moved into my current home. Unaware of well depth but I have a six inch Campbell well casing cap. 32 gallon pressure tank.

Last week I had a company come out to take a look at what our issue was. Said it was the pressure tank so my father and I took the old tank out and replaced it, the pressure switch(30/50 to 30/50), and all fittings including the pressure valve and tee. The water worked for 2 days or so and then no water at all. I changed out the buss fuses and it proceeded to work for another 3 days and again no water. So I bought more fuses thinking that would work again temporarily but this time after replacing, I flicked the pressure switch lever from off to start and nothing happens.

I don't know a heck of a lot about electricity except to respect it, but I used my meter(set to volts AC) and its registering in the high 300's. That would be my leading guess of what's wrong but figured I'd check here for additional input.

Valveman · May 14, 2013

With the age of that pump, I am afraid the automatic overload is tripping. You are probably going to need a new one. Once the smoke gets out of the motor there is no putting it back in.

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

wellnowwhat · May 14, 2013

I did hook my meter up to the pressure switch and it is running perfectly and sending 120 vac to the pump when the switch is engaged/0 vac when not, with the two other wires reading at 120 vac each.

Is it worth troubleshooting whether or not it could be an issue with the control box, maybe a start or run capacitor getting fried or is that just being hopeful? I don't think replacing the pump is something I cant tackle, just will obviously need to come here for some additional guidance and tips probably.

Leejosepho · May 14, 2013

valveman said:
With the age of that pump, I am afraid the automatic overload is tripping.

Yep. check (or have someone check) the amperage while it is running.

wellnowwhat · May 14, 2013

leejosepho said:
Yep. check (or have someone check) the amperage while it is running.

The pump hasn't been running, do you mean when the pressure switch is sending power to it? Was basically trying to troubleshoot any above ground possibilities a newbie to well systems may have overlooked that'd cause it to not start up. Like control box and capacitors are what seems to be my only remaining items to cross off before I buy a new pump and install it.

Leejosepho · May 14, 2013

wellnowwhat said:
The pump doesn't run, do you mean when the pressure switch is sending power to it?

Ah, I misunderstood. I thought it was still running for short periods. If you are sending full 240VAC power (and not just a trickle) to the pump and the pump is not running, either the pump is shot or a wire is broken on the way to the pump.

I did hook my meter up to the pressure switch and it is running perfectly and sending 120 vac to the pump when the switch is engaged/0 vac when not, with the two other wires reading at 120 vac each.

I would get a reputable plumber or electrician to be sure all of that is working correctly before buying a new pump. Whoever told you the pressure tank was the problem was a parts changer, not a mechanic.

wellnowwhat · May 14, 2013

I would get a reputable plumber or electrician to be sure all of that is working correctly before buying a new pump. Whoever told you the pressure tank was the problem was a parts changer, not a mechanic.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the help, I do believe the pressure tank was just one of the problem(s). It was full of rusty water when we drained it before taking it out and after putting the new gear in I had a couple days where everything was working fine. Not sure if everything was just coincidence in happening the way it did. My father basically did it and I helped. He has been in plumbing and electricity for 35 years or so. So I would highly doubt it was caused by a mistake by him, as he's never half a*sed a job since I've known him.

Craigpump · May 15, 2013

I would try a new control box first especially if the pump was working against an old water logged tank. Don't be surprised if the pump is shot too, short cycling can kill a pump motor pretty quickly.

wellnowwhat · May 15, 2013

craigpump said:
I would try a new control box first especially if the pump was working against an old water logged tank. Don't be surprised if the pump is shot too, short cycling can kill a pump motor pretty quickly.

The control box doesn't have a capacitor or relay inside of it, I was talking to someone yesterday who said it's basically like a junction box with 240 VAC going in and out of it. By the sound of it I only have to check for power at the well cap going down before ruling out anything but a bad pump. Or would you still advise a new control box? It seems very basic looking inside like there aren't many things that could go wrong.

TVL · May 15, 2013

wellnowwhat said:
The control box doesn't have a capacitor or relay inside of it, I was talking to someone yesterday who said it's basically like a junction box with 240 VAC going in and out of it. QUOTE]

OK .......... I'm not a well expert, just a handy homeowner.

One method for checking the pump and wiring in the well without having to remove anything is with your multimeter:

1- Based on you comment above, I am assuming this is a two wire pump and the control box has NO capacitors
2- If this is true, with the power breaker switched OFF, disconnect the wires at the control box ....... which again I am assuming is very near or at the well itself
3- If you have three wires at the well going to the pump, then one would be the safety ground, which is hopefully a green wire
4- The remaining two wires are the current carrying wires. With your ohmmeter, read across these two wires and see how much resistance your are reading. Shouldn't be a lot. If the resistance reads infinity or some very high value, then there is a wire or pump issue down in the well. Then it's time to pull the pump.

Hope this is helpful!

wellnowwhat · May 15, 2013

tvl said:
wellnowwhat said:

The control box doesn't have a capacitor or relay inside of it, I was talking to someone yesterday who said it's basically like a junction box with 240 VAC going in and out of it. QUOTE]

OK .......... I'm not a well expert, just a handy homeowner.

One method for checking the pump and wiring in the well without having to remove anything is with your multimeter:

1- Based on you comment above, I am assuming this is a two wire pump and the control box has NO capacitors
2- If this is true, with the power breaker switched OFF, disconnect the wires at the control box ....... which again I am assuming is very near or at the well itself
3- If you have three wires at the well going to the pump, then one would be the safety ground, which is hopefully a green wire
4- The remaining two wires are the current carrying wires. With your ohmmeter, read across these two wires and see how much resistance your are reading. Shouldn't be a lot. If the resistance reads infinity or some very high value, then there is a wire or pump issue down in the well. Then it's time to pull the pump.

Hope this is helpful!

Click to expand...

Thank you, going to go try this out now. Will report back in a bit to let you know what I find out.

wellnowwhat · May 16, 2013

tvl: (or anyone else with any input) I did what you recommended and I got a ohm reading of 6 amps off the wires going to the pump from under the stairs where all the pressure tank, control box and breaker is. That's good right if I'm hoping to have a pump that still works?

While down where the control box is I noticed something called a secondary arrester. Would that have anything to do with it potentially?

TVL · May 16, 2013

First, as I stated earlier, I'm no well/pump expert, but 6 ohms is about what I would have expected. If this truly is the reading from the two wires that go down into the well where the pump sits, then you definitley don't have a broken wire or bad motor. Refer to the following chart to see if your particular pump is reading in the expected range:

http://www.deanbennett.com/testing-submersible-pump-motors.htm

Now, this doesn't indicate if the pump has a bad bearing or something else. This is why you also need to check the amperage draw while the pump is RUNNING. Report back if you can.

The secondary arrestor is for surge protection. Just in case you are interested, the following link shows some photos of different arrestors:

http://www.google.com/search?q=seco...yBsPA0QG46IHoDg&ved=0CE0QsAQ&biw=1280&bih=722

And by the way, I re-read your original post. Test your voltage again making certain you are reading your meter correctly. A reading of 300 PLUS volts is definitely not a good thing. I'm not sure you did this correctly?????

wellnowwhat · May 16, 2013

Yes my meter needed a new 9v battery. Got the correct reading of 240 VAC after I changed it. Also made sure to check the pressure switch was throwing 240 VAC when engaged as well.

The problem is the pump is not running when everything is engaged. My fuses are registering on the ohm setting too so I know they are not bad. Also the circuit breaker is working too as I am getting the correct voltage in and out of the pressure switch.

And thanks for the links, going to read through them and do some more troubleshooting.

TVL · May 16, 2013

Well, here are my thoughts .................... and remember I'm basing all of my input on what YOU have shared:

1- If there is no start capacitor for the pump, and that is what you have stated, when 240 volts is supplied to the pump it should run.
2- If you are getting low ohmage as you have indicated on the two wires going to the pump, then you have ruled out a broken lead wire and a bad motor winding. Once again, supplying 240 volts to the motor should get it running.
3- And last, based on items 1 & 2 and what you have indicated from your troubleshooting, it now appears you do have a pump or well issue. What's the problem? Well, it could be a seized bearing or no water in the well (unlikely) ........................ could be; it's all just a guess! I'll re-emphasize; if the ohmage reads as you have indicated and the proper voltage is being supplied to the pump as you have also indicated, then the electrical circuit is OK. The fact that nothing is occurring, now leads me to believe the issue is definitely down in the well.

Just my 2 cents!

Just another thought: When you energize the circuit, the fuses do not blow and the breaker does not trip ....... correct?? If this is true, do one other test:

Check and see if there is any amperage draw while the circuit is energized. If there is, then the pump is hopefully pumping water. And if this is the case, then the pump has obviously come loose from the drop pipe and nothing is being sent to the surface.

Valveman · May 16, 2013

valveman said:
With the age of that pump, I am afraid the automatic overload is tripping. You are probably going to need a new one. Once the smoke gets out of the motor there is no putting it back in.

You need an amp meter clipped around one of the hot wires. If it reads high amps for a few seconds, then drops to zero, I stand by my first diagnosis.

Well pump issue or electrical problem?

Users who are viewing this thread

wellnowwhat

New Member

Valveman

Cary Austin

Sponsor

Paid Advertisement

wellnowwhat

New Member

Leejosepho

DIY scratch-pad engineer

wellnowwhat

New Member

Leejosepho

DIY scratch-pad engineer

wellnowwhat

New Member

Craigpump

In the Trades

wellnowwhat

New Member

TVL

Member

wellnowwhat

New Member

wellnowwhat

New Member

TVL

Member

wellnowwhat

New Member

TVL

Member

Valveman

Cary Austin

Similar threads