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Thread: Help identify 3 handle tub fixture from 1950s?

  1. #1
    DIY Member mc510's Avatar
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    Default Help identify 3 handle tub fixture from 1950s?

    Somewhere I got the idea that it's Price Pfister, but after poring over the Kissler catalog that seems impossible. It's got 16 points on the splined broach, and the valve stem is about 13/32" diameter and 5 1/4" [edit: corrected length]. The handles look a lot like Briggs, but Kissler says that Briggs have 18 points. I don't know if these are the original handles or not. The spout is almost certainly original, and looks pretty distinctive ... is that a clue? The escutcheons are Danco replacements; they're generally like the originals (which I neglected to save) but probably not exactly the same. Thanks for any help you can offer!



    Last edited by mc510; 12-23-2012 at 02:04 PM. Reason: corrected stem length

  2. #2
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    spouts and cross handles, like yours, are generally so "generic" that they are useless for identification purposes. We would need a picture of what is under the escutcheons, at a minimum, and more likely, one of the stem after it is removed.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

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    Plumber jimbo's Avatar
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    I have seen old Sayco which resemble the handles, escutcheon, and spout. AndI think both new style and old style Sayco are 16 point broach. We really need you to remove a stem....you can take out the diverter stem without turning off the main, if the hot and cold are not dripping too bad.....

    In that time frame, there are "new" and "old" Sayco stems....you just need to pin yours down.

  4. #4
    DIY Member mc510's Avatar
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    Here's the hot stem. Length is 5 1/4" [edit: corrected length]. 16 point, 13/32" stem diameter. Bonnet hex is 3/4" and the body hex is 15/16". Can't tell too much about the seat but it looks like a square fitting. Thanks!


    Last edited by mc510; 12-23-2012 at 02:05 PM.

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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Consider doing yourself a favor and replacing the whole valve with a new, up to current code anti-scald valve. It will make selling easier and really is a safety upgrade. Depending on how much you're willing to spend, I prefer a temperature controlled valve - set the temp to what you like, winter/summer, and just turn the volume on/off...it's always the same. No futzing with temp. They do make remodel or renovation plates that cover the larger hole you'd need to make to convert. It's easier if you have access from the rear, but eminently doable from the front. I did my mother's a couple of years ago - works fine, looks good. I happened to use Delta parts, but there are lots of decent valves out there that aren't too expensive.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

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    DIY Member mc510's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    Consider doing yourself a favor and replacing the whole valve with a new, up to current code anti-scald valve.
    I'd love to, but am saving that for a future gut-and-rebuild on this bathroom. In the meantime, I'm hoping to figure out what brand this thing is so that I can keep it properly maintained.

  7. #7
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    You manage to take pictures of everything but what we need. Give us a picture of the stem FROM THE SIDE so we can see the whole thing, not just the washer on the end. It could be a SAYCO given the machining on the valve, but that is NOT a given.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  8. #8
    DIY Member mc510's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hj View Post
    Give us a picture of the stem FROM THE SIDE so we can see the whole thing, not just the washer on the end.
    Not this one? For some reason, the thumbnail clips off the sides of the picture, but if you click it to see the full-size pic, you can see the whole thing from the washer to the broach:

    Or, do you mean a picture of the stem, removed from the valve housing? I've already put it all back together, but I can pull it out again if necessary.
    Last edited by mc510; 12-22-2012 at 07:47 PM.

  9. #9
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Probably not a Sayco, because most of theirs have a "swivel" washer retainer. Unfortunately, most stem catalogs only show the stem itself, not the "bonnet" it goes into which is a better identifyer. To use those pictures, you would have to remove the stem and place it next to each photo to match the diameter, thread pitch, length of stem, and location of the thread on the stem to get a match.
    Last edited by hj; 12-23-2012 at 07:35 AM.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

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    Plumber jimbo's Avatar
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    go to www.kissler.com, click on products, parts......look in the stem catalog at Sayco. I believe you will find that one. They don't sell to the public, but a supply house can get it.

  11. #11
    DIY Member mc510's Avatar
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    Here's the stem by itself. (The thumbnails are clipped again, but clicking them will show the full image.)


    With the stem out I was able to measure it more accurately, and it turns out to be 5 1/4" long. Not that that helps; I've pored over Kissler again and found nothing that matches in general appearance, approximate length, and number of spline points. The Sayco stems are all under 5" and have different appearance; if it is Sayco, perhaps it's an oddball that Kissler doesn't carry? Is there another downloadable catalog that I should check?

    Happy holidays, by the way!
    Last edited by mc510; 12-23-2012 at 11:22 AM.

  12. #12
    DIY Member mc510's Avatar
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    It's Sterling. It's a mystery where those Briggs-y looking handles came from. Good to finally know what I'm dealing with.

    In the meantime, it's become apparent that it's leaking inside the wall.

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