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Thread: Kerdi Board Shower Niches - Review of Schluter System's new shower ready made niches

  1. #31
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Think of it sort of like screwing drywall up...if you drive it in too far and get the head past the paper, it is MUCH weaker than if it is just recessed and the paper around the head is still intact. Same idea on the covering of the KerdiBoard and the screw fasteners - the washer spreads the load and really holds things tight. It gives you enough area to recess it so when you add the Kerdiband, it is still flat without the head sticking up. It IS a system and works best when used that way.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  2. #32
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Kerdi Board System of Niches - Rules to follow

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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  3. #33
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Fixing the missing slope on a Kerdi Board Shower Niche - and divider shelf

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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  4. #34
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Since the foam is waterproof, and the shelf does not penetrate behind what is already waterproof, the only thing required is to anchor it to the recess well. You can do what you want, but that is all that is needed.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  5. #35
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  6. #36
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    In one of the classes, they specifically said that if the covering on Kerdiboard was penetrated, unless it went all the way through, there was no need to do anything to it...the foam is waterproof and unless you mechanically break the bond of the material to the foam, it getting wet isn't an issue.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  7. #37
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Kerdi Board Shelf Niche

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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  8. #38
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    The covering on Kerdiboard (for the umpteenth time) is NOT the waterproofing layer! The fact it can wick is irrelevant IF the penetrations are waterproofed at the edges and any through holes. The covering on the Kerdiboard is for THINSET compatibility and to provide some protection to the foam waterproofing layer. It doesn't matter that it wicks IF you've waterproofed the seams and penetrations...same exact idea as cbu - it wicks lots, too, but if there is some sort of waterproofing preventing it from getting to areas that can't handle it, it doesn't matter! But, in this case, the covering on Kerdiboard is MUCH thinner and will absorb LOTS LESS moisture than a cbu board, thus likely drying out faster (should it get wet in the first place!).

    So, in your niche, that is already waterproof, since there's likely to be no standing water pressure on the tile, it really doesn't matter on a shelf as long as when anchoring it, you have not penetrated the layer that IS the waterproofing (the foam of the actual niche body).

    Maybe YOU should go take a Schluter class before you trash it and gain some understanding on how it actually works! Even if you've been, you always pick up some new ideas and possibilities, plus, they add new products and evolve the methods. There's decades of knowledge and hundreds of thousands of installations of experience in the product's use. Everyone can learn, and what you learn is that you were not right or there is a better way to do things.

    Again, it is the FOAM THAT IS THE WATERPROOFING LAYER on Kerdiboard, NOT THE COVERING! Seal the foam edges and penetrations, and it is waterproof even without the orange covering.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  9. #39
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  10. #40
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Kerdi Time - Tying in a Kerdi Board Shower Niche to the rest of the shower

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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  11. #41
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Waterproofing Your Kerdi Board Niche - Using Ardex 8+9 and Kerdi Corners

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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  12. #42
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Using SK Mesh from Ardex with your Kerdi System

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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  13. #43
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default A helping hand for a Kerdi Installation

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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  14. #44
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    I'm sure John's technique works, but why not talk directly to the people that make it, warrantee it, train it, and have over 20-years of using it and testing it over and over again. It's one thing when you may have lots of other contractors on the worksite and you can't control every aspect of who does what to whatever, but it's a different thing with a DIY'er. The Kerdi system works as presented by the manufacturer, has been tested by independent agencies, and has 100's of thousands of installations in the USA and more in Europe. If it was a product that required all of these extra steps John performs to produce a reliable result (implying that it didn't work 'out of the box'), they'd have long since been out of business, but have been around for decades. Any time somebody builds something, there's a chance they either do not know what they're doing, or don't believe the instructions and do something else. As a result, there will be failures, but they are not the result of the system, they are in someone's interpretation of the instructions, or their total disregard for them, or an accident that occurred that they didn't rectify. Some redundancy is reasonable, but testing has shown a properly installed seam in Kerdi only wicks about 1/4" under standing water (only happens during a flood test), having a minimum of 2" overlap provides LOTS of redundancy in application errors for real world finished assemblies!

    John's dislike for Kerdiboard and his 'sample' of a test when he stripped the orange covering off and used it to build a water box is just one example of him not understanding the product. That covering is for topical strength to the board and thinset compatibility...it is, and always has been that the closed cell foam is the waterproofing. In a typical installation, you use Kerdiband or Kerdifix on the edges, which seals the edge, and there should be minimal wicking beneath it, if any. Plus, it is not designed for use as a floor in a shower, and only for walls where it is unlikely to see any water pressure, especially after it is covered with tile. All of the Schluter foam shower trays either come with Kerdi fabric membrane on them (some of those designed for linear drains come that way), or are designed for it to be applied during installation.

    The proper use of the proper materials, and understanding their use is critical. Choosing to make an installation more bulletproof is sort of like adding bulletproof glass on top of the body armor of your vehicle. Homes don't generally have bullets being fired at them, and for most people, one is enough!

    If you do two things: clean the wall (removing dust and adding some moisture so that the thinset isn't affected), mix the thinset properly per the manufacturer's instructions, and get your Kerdi membrane up on the wall before it starts to skin over, then press it in place with something like a taping knife or the smooth side of a trowel, or something similar, there's no reason to wet or clean the Kerdi membrane (unless it was unrolled and got dirty!) prior to installing it. Won't hurt, but isn't necessary.

    FWIW, the codes are written for the 'what-if' situations. A typical person may never experience the combination of unusual situations that combine to create that atypical situation, but the codes have been written and updated as experience shows a deficiency to protect the unwary from those problems. I'm sure that the codes for many things will continue to evolve as experience dictates and new products and techniques are discovered as they have evolved almost every year since they were initiated. The certification for Kerdi hasn't changed over the years, but additions have been made to make things easier and faster for the installer (such as the premade corners - the old ones worked, and still do, but resulted in more buildup).
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  15. #45
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

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