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Thread: Kerdi Board Shower Niches - Review of Schluter System's new shower ready made niches

  1. #16
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    This was just a demo that was not finished during the class. The recommendation is to install the metal U-channel over that outside edge to reinforce it. Schluter tried one this size, with the metal, tile, and after properly curing, put 12 bags of thinset on it before it broke away. Prior to that, the neither tile nor grout cracked. With the metal U-channel, you can use it for a free-standing end wall and tile it without worries. Have you seen any of the Wedi free-standing shower kits? these things are stable. I think the foam in KerdiBoard is a little denser and the tileable layer adds stiffness, but have not measured it. If you're going to sit or stand on it, you need to reinforce it just like your plywood decking material, in the order of every 16" OC. Done this way, you have a quick, solid, easy means to create a tub deck, steps, vanities, pipe covers, and pretty much anything you can think of, and with the pre-scored stuff, easy curves as well. That picture was taken with my cellphone, and no guarantees on the optics quality. It probably did sag a little, but again, that is without fully curing the side attachment points, without the metal reinforcement channel, and no tile bonded, which all would add significantly to the overall strength and stiffness. It was a demo that was not finished, nor done with huge care, just to get the idea of what was possible. We would have made the shelf's edges perfect to the corner so it had a more perfect surface bond - actually easy, but we didn't take the time. Tried it, found out how to do it, and then went on to the next concept. None of those modules were anything permanent - they were all going to be torn apart, and the basic wall/floor reused for the next class.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  2. #17
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Kerdi Bench.

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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  3. #18
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    As standing there, probably about 220#. As I said, once cured and finished, they had over 600# on one (the 13th bag of thinset did it, and it happened over a few minutes, not immediately). It's not big enough for a 600# person to sit on, but if you did build one big enough, it would have vertical reinforcement like a bench if you followed their recommendations. It is NOT going anywhere if you build it properly. And, no penetrations in the waterproof wall - it's just KerdiFix. I was looking through my notes, and did not see the bond cure strength of KerdiFix, but it was something in excess of 600#/sqin. I'd have to see if they cover that on the data sheet...regardless, it is tough stuff, and in that picture, probably only 10-20% cured. If it were for a real install, I'd probably have put a little more KerdiFix on it - enough to ooze out. I'm sure it was nearly covered, but I'm sure it was not fully covered. So, build your walls, cut the shelf to fit, coat the edges with Kerdifix, press in place, prop up overnight, and it's not going anywhere. No need to Kerdiband the wall/seat edges (you could if you wanted, but it's not necessary), and on the front edge, you can get a decorative metal channel, or just tile it, or add corner details with various trims after you've added the reinforcement channel. On a strictly smaller shelf (something you may not be tempted or expected to sit on), you could omit the reinforcement channel and just glue it. They cut everything needed to mock up a tub deck in like 15-minutes (you'd need your plans in hand), and put it together in another 15-minutes. No way you'd build it out of sticks, cover with ply, waterproof it in anywhere near that time. How about a tiled countertop? A 24" wide plank of the stuff, kerdifixed' to the top of the cabinet (no extra ply or anything required), use the cove at the back and trim and tile on the front, and it's pretty much at a standard counter depth. Try that with two sheets of ply, cbu, waterproofing, etc. They showed how to use an undermount sink with Kerdiboard...really slick, fast, and easy. The edge trims are limited to straight and a fairly small radius corner, but you could probably cut the flange on the trim to bend to accommodate a D-shaped sink as well. You route out the top of the Kerdiboard for the flange of the undermount...attach it with KerdiFix. For the faucet, you route out enough depth for a scrap piece of tile, thinset it in, then after you get the finished tile on, cut out the foam from the bottom big enough for the clamping ring so it is attached to the two thicknesses of tile you have in that area. Rock solid, waterproof, quick. It would allow you to use a 24" tile, and with the cove and trim, just that on the counter to achieve the typical depth. The new TUscan trim adds hammered finishes if you do not like the polished look.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  4. #19
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Kerdi-Board Niches have no slope- Says who? Says Schulter Face Book

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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  5. #20
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    The guy I asked either was also misinformed, or misunderstood my question. But, since the whole thing is totally waterproof, it is NOT going to seep into the structure and damage anything. A little slope to the setting surface, and there should be no problems as 99.9% will run off, and the remainder will dry out in between uses. It can become a problem if the substrate is not waterproof, or there's a lot of structure there to absorb it...in the case of the Kerdiboard niche, there's nominally at most a 1/4" of thinset, and probably a lot less. If you take some of the other preformed niches, lay them flat, fill them with water, let them set for awhile, see what happens. We're talking apples and oranges here. FWIW, I built my last niches out of studs and cbu, then covered in Kerdi...given the structure, there was no other way to reasonably do it. Given a more typical remodel or new, I'd probably have used KerdiBoard on the walls and one of the preformed niches - it would have gone up a lot faster and have had flatter walls!
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  6. #21
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  7. #22
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Site Review of a twin Kerdi Board Shower Niche Installation

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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  8. #23
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default How to fix a Kerdi Board Niche - Adding the missing pre-slope to the niche's bottom

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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  9. #24
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Two things: you should use the washers for the screws, and I do not know if the Ardex product works as well as Kerdiband, but any penetration is supposed to be covered with Kerdiband with the nominal 2" overlap.

    A reminder, it is the foam that is the waterproofing layer on Kerdiboard...the top layer is only for protection and thinset compatibility. So, any edge or penetration needs to be waterproofed per the standard installation of any Kerdi (banded).
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  10. #25
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Is it the foam waterproof in a kerdi board niche?

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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  11. #26
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    The point on the washers is to not damage the surface so the waterproofing (Kerdiband, or whatever) can do its job. Any penetration is a potential weak point, and the washers spread the load on the fastener and hold things much better.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  12. #27
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Kerdi Board Washers have spikes in them.

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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  13. #28
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Spray Foam as a brace on the back side of a Kerdi Board Niche

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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

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  14. #29
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnfrwhipple View Post
    Jim have you not seen the washers? They are huge with four spikes on each one. Does that not make five penetrations into the foam waterproofing core?
    The difference is, the screw goes all the way through, and with the head recessed, it's harder to get a good seal and the strength of the attachment is compromised (it wouldn't take much to pull through the rest of the foam; not a big deal if you've glued it in place from behind, but not a good 'sample' of how to do it!). The teeth on the washers spread the load, help prevent overdriving the screw, and do not penetrate. Then, adding the Kerdiband, you have both the strength, and the single penetration that actually holds the thing, rather than relying on the small area of the head to hold in the foam.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  15. #30
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

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