(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16

Thread: Can I use a flushometer bowl with a high tank?

  1. #1
    DIY Senior Member CanOfWorms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    157

    Default Can I use a flushometer bowl with a high tank?

    if yes... then how high?
    If I go higher than that i will need to raise the pipe and I have another line Tee'd off of it.

    If I go up 48" will I be able to get a chrome/brass compression feeder line.
    I am not going to mess with that 110 year old iron thats working.
    I need to up my game on the fittings because they will be visible.

    Here is my old tank.
    Name:  tank.jpg
Views: 213
Size:  23.8 KB
    I see this nice Madera on greggslist and I am thinking high tank, pull chain.
    Name:  madera.jpg
Views: 201
Size:  26.8 KB

    Description:

    Right Height elongated bowl
    Fully glazed 2-1/8" trapway
    Elongated syphon jetted bowl
    10" (254mm) rough-in
    16-1/2" bowl rim height
    28.25" D x 14" W x 16.5" h

    Flushometer Required

    Or maybe I should just get a nice new clean tank like this one:
    Name:  tank2.jpg
Views: 180
Size:  27.1 KB


    Just so you know. This was there. I really liked the look, but people's asses must have been tiny when this was made.
    Name:  old toilet.jpg
Views: 228
Size:  14.3 KB
    Last edited by CanOfWorms; 04-12-2013 at 08:46 AM.

  2. #2
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,401

    Default

    Flushometers work at street water pressure. To achieve decent pressure, you'd need your tank on a tower! I do not think it would work. While you might get lots of volume, it probably wouldn't meet the pressure required to start a siphon before the bowl overflowed.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  3. #3
    DIY Senior Member CanOfWorms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    157

    Default

    I was thinking that if I had a tank with a 3"-4" flapped and a same size pipe down t a reduced right at bowl connect. The velocity of the water dropping would create pressure when it reduced to 1 7/8 to enter bowl.
    Tech guys at AM might have some ideas.

  4. #4
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,401

    Default

    The pressure will never be more than the height differential of the tank/bowl allows, regardless of the volume...gravity is pretty constant on this planet...
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  5. #5
    DIY Senior Member CanOfWorms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    157

    Default

    it's not a matter of gravity being different . it's all about momentum . if you have a three inch nd column of water essentially dropping 28 inchesand then having to go through a the whole 40 percent smaller you are going to get a pressure increase . I have no idea if it would be enough do you know how much pressure it takes to flush one of these ?
    I suppose someone good roughly calculate the amount of pressure approximately but I'd really have to put on my thinking cap and I don't feel like it .
    please excuse the spelling and punctuation on this I'm using voice recognition on my cell phone and I can't seem to edit the dang text
    Last edited by CanOfWorms; 04-12-2013 at 02:58 PM.

  6. #6
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Bothell, Washington
    Posts
    14,201
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    At one time in Seattle, the plumbing near the water was having a hard time when the tide was high.
    They installed tanks high on the wall which made the toilets flush with more force.

    I've used a few like that, a tank mounted high on the wall. It really gets the water going dropping it from that height.

    What have you got to lose? It sounds like a fun project. The bowl in your picture is a 1.6
    I'm guessing it's going to work.

  7. #7
    DIY Senior Member CanOfWorms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    157

    Default

    Thanks.
    If it does not work can I do flushometer ?
    I don't mind it in residential as it is the kind of thing you occasionally find in houses this old.

  8. #8
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,401

    Default

    All of the flushometer valves I've seen require about a 1" supply line. They work by opening fast, dumping supply system pressure water out, then stopping. The idea is get a fast burst of water under pressure to get enough inertia to siphon the bowl dry. A tank even a couple of feet up is going to generate maybe a pound or two of water pressure...way lower than that from the supply line. Low flow bowls don't have enough volume like the old ones that relied on lots of water to start the siphon...these require a certain amount of high speed burst of water. Certainly won't hurt to try, but with a gravity fed system, on a bowl designed for a flushometer, your odds aren't really good.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  9. #9
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Bothell, Washington
    Posts
    14,201
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    If you do a flushometer valve in a home, you will need to install an expansion tank near the toilet, and pipe it with 1"

    Or you can change out your main line from the meter and upsize your piping.
    Normally on commercial buildings, I'm running a 1.5" meter and 2" water main.

    A tank type toilet can have a 3/8" supply and take several minutes to refill.
    You're takling about a valve that flushes in seconds. Big difference.

    In high rise buildings, they have a large main line going up the floors. In a large building it may be larger than 2"

  10. #10
    DIY Senior Member CanOfWorms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    157

    Default

    Well I really would rather do a high tank than flush o meter.
    Someone said something about tanks with 2" - 3" flappers?

    Which tanks or toilets have such a large hole?

    If the flushometer bowl is a 1.6 gallon flush can I use a smaller tank? The old style toilets all had small high tanks.

    I can start there.
    I ran this by an engineer/sailor buddy of mine said i should make sure that the reduction from the larger pipe to the smaller bowl inlet should be smooth like > instead of a 90 degree like } or ] to direct the flow through the smaller opening rather than create turbulence
    .
    Pics and follow up will be posted.

  11. #11
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,401

    Default

    Water falling a couple of feet just does NOT have the same force as a quick opening valve with a 1" (or larger) supply line under pressure. The bowls are designed differently...if it says it requires a Flushometer...I think you'll have problems. The actual water pressure increase for a gravity fed system is approximately 0.43197 psi/ft. Typical line water pressure is 40-60#. The bowl needs the velocity from the pressurized supply line to work. SO, take the tank, mounted a couple of feet above the bowl, then throw in maybe a foot of water on top of that and you'd have less than 1.5#, not the 40-60# it is designed for.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  12. #12
    DIY Senior Member CanOfWorms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    157

    Default

    I'll give it a try with some junk parts and pvc before i go and buy all nice stuff.
    I'll try it with my existing tank and a roadside pickup.
    I'm not sqweemish

  13. #13
    DIY Junior Member benlinus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Well recently Using a Flushometer Bowl with a Low Tank Toilet, it works great, really have no idea, how to use a flashometer bowl with a high tank toilet, he flushometer is a plumbing device you have no doubt seen, and probably used. As opposed to most residential toilets, which rely on a water tank and gravity to flush the contents of a toilet bowl, toilets employing a flushometer are tankless, and rely on the water pressure from the water source itself. Toilets with flushometers are most commonly seen in public restrooms and places of business.

  14. #14
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Posts
    25,633

    Default

    Your first problem will be that the bowl will have a 1 1/2" o.d. inlet and the tank will have a 2" o.d. outlet, but there are few, if any, reducers for tubular sizes to make the reduction. Then you have to figure out how to do the offset since the bowl's inlet will probably NOT line up the tank's outlet. Which is why the old "tank type" toilets had a rear inlet.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  15. #15
    DIY Senior Member CanOfWorms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    157

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hj View Post
    Your first problem will be that the bowl will have a 1 1/2" o.d. inlet and the tank will have a 2" o.d. outlet, but there are few, if any, reducers for tubular sizes to make the reduction. Then you have to figure out how to do the offset since the bowl's inlet will probably NOT line up the tank's outlet. Which is why the old "tank type" toilets had a rear inlet.
    I want the larger od of the tank to build pressure from the drop and then the reduction as it enters the bowl.
    . I may have to put a little bend in the pipe to get it to line up, maybe not. If I do put a bend in it it will look good.
    But looking at the cost of 2" copper pipe I will probably test it out with PVC and it will probably stay pvc if it works.
    Maybe paint it silver. It will look cheasy to me and also to a plumber, but it the wacky bathroom it will look cute.

Similar Threads

  1. Replace Flushometer w/High Tank feed?
    By glb in forum Toilet Forum discussions
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-03-2013, 05:40 AM
  2. Need shallow flushometer bowl
    By dougitect in forum Toilet Forum discussions
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-07-2009, 03:33 PM
  3. Bowl type for flushometer valve
    By Sukey in forum Toilet Forum discussions
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 07-13-2008, 04:35 PM
  4. Replace Flushometer with Tank Style?
    By Madera in forum Toilet Forum discussions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-16-2005, 12:28 PM
  5. flushometer to tank pressure assisted?
    By peter1226 in forum Toilet Forum discussions
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-06-2005, 11:12 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •