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Thread: SpiderWeb II - Review of Custom Building Products new Uncoupling Mat

  1. #31
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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  2. #32
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    The industry tests are after 28-days, the standard for cement based products. After the first week, it has most of the strength. But, also consider that cement continues to gain strength for years, the 28-days was a calculated compromise based on typical construction timelines representing 'typical' strength.
    Jim DeBruycker
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  3. #33
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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  4. #34
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    Default Testing day is here at last

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  5. #35
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Pictures of the shear testing control test

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  6. #36
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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  7. #37
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Uncoupling membrane - shear testing (Ditra with Laticrete 254 Platinum)

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  8. #38
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    What's the bonded surface area of the brick? As has been said, a membrane should hold at least 50#/sqin. From a practical viewpoint, I think you've proven you're not likely to strip a tile off the wall easily once the mortar has cured some, at least for Ditra, you've tested.
    Jim DeBruycker
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  10. #40
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Ditra Shear Testing - Failure point 1470 pounds

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  11. #41
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Ardex AF 207 Shear Testing Report

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  12. #42
    Nuclear Engineer nukeman's Avatar
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    It looks like you are well under 50 psi for shear. At ~1500lb, this would only be 30 in^2 to get 50 psi shear. I suspect that you are closer to 25 psi based on those numbers.

    However, are you sure about the weight per can? You are saying 150lb per can. At 150 lb, this is only about 18 U.S. gallons. Those cans look to be double that. They are probably at least 32 gallon cans and they may even be 44 gallon cans. So, I think you are really looking at more like 250lb/can (could be near 350lb/can if they are 44 gallon cans).


    If that brick is say 6x12, your failure could be around 3600lb (assuming 50 psi shear). 50 psi is probably in the ballpark since it hasn't had the 28 day cure. It will have most of its strengh after 1 week, but will continue to get better with a longer cure. Your test may also be a bit lower than the actual tested value if your testing surface wasn't perfectly plumb. This could induce a twisting force (instead of pure shear) and say pull the top of the brick away from the surface while also pulling downward.

    This goes to show you how well a good thinset will bond to tile. Even a cheap unmodified thinset could support hanging a car off say a 12x12 tile. I like a good modified thinset more many reasons, but as you can see, the additional strength of the modified thinset isn't really needed. If you had enough shear to really need modified during an actual install, you would probably pull down the house before you actually sheared all the tiles off.

  13. #43
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Double Checking the weighting system

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  14. #44
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Without a copy of the industry test procedure, it's easy to not have the same conditions, and the test results differ. In the tests done, it appears that the membrane tore at the top, which then peeled the rest off. Not being there, it's hard to say. I guess, though, that the bottom line is that properly installed, you should not worry about the tile coming loose on its own! If the industry test called for the tile to be grouted, this would also tie multiple tile together, increasing the overall effort required to pull any one tile out. Also, at least with the Ditra, the thinset doesn't really stick to the top side...it is locked into the wedge shaped pockets. So, the effort to pull it up is more of a function of distorting those pockets to get that wider base popped out of them, than the membrane breaking loose from the subflooring.
    Last edited by jadnashua; 05-03-2013 at 11:29 AM.
    Jim DeBruycker
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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

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    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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