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Thread: Need assistance of tub/shower location (and type)

  1. #76
    DIY Senior Member suceress's Avatar
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    D'oh. I was afraid there was something behind the bulkhead. From what I've seen, people generally don't put them up as decorations. They usually cover pipes or support beams or vent shafts. Too bad they probably don't make corner tubs that have a curve in that spot so they wouldn't get in the way of the pipe. You might want to consult your contractor first to find out if moving that vent is at all feasible and if it would be more costly to do that than to make other arrangements.

    I'm glad you looked. I wonder if you have to put up some sort of fire retardant material in that wall around the vent.

    So, the shower is 5' long? That's a good size.

  2. #77

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    I was also thinking it didn't make sense to have a bulkhead without anything behind it. Good that you found that out now than later.

    With the vent there, it's impossible to have a corner tub there. I won't move the vent if the fireplace will ever be used. Oval tub is not bad, and with your new plan H6, you can have something decorative on the new bulkhead. With an oval tub, you probably will make a bulkhead anyway.

    Some shower door hinges will stop at 90 degrees. Or you can have a door bumper on the wall/corner.

    If you do make a wall next to the shower bench, I think you'll need lighting in the shower. If you have all glass panels you probably can go without it, since the light from the rest of the bathroom can fill in the shower space.

    Since you need to move the vanity over to the shower side a little bit, or make the vanity a little shorter, you may want to consider building the shower wall a little longer so that you can bring the vanity right next to it. You need 17" overhang a comfortable bench, and 22" to overhang the vanity, that's 5" more. What you gain is a bigger vanity, which you need if you want to have towers on top, (I'd say a 72" vanity is on the short side to accommodate a tower), and more storage in the cabinets. What you lose is the wall space for towels, a bench (really? it doesn't make sense to me because no one is going to sit in that narrow space though), and the open feel in the shower when you have more glass. You cannot have the sink too close to the shower anyway, which will limit the placement of your towers. And you definitely need plenty of light in the shower to keep it from a dark corner. So, this option has many of its own limitations. Well, I'm only throwing ideas here.

    mediaman, it seems that your shower bench does not take up an entire shower wall? Is it on purpose or you just didn't change the bench size? I'd say a corner bench is fine, a bench on a full side of wall is fine, but a narrow space between the bench and shower wall/glass is not good.

  3. #78
    DIY Member mediaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapida View Post
    I was also thinking it didn't make sense to have a bulkhead without anything behind it. Good that you found that out now than later.
    I agree bulkhead almost always hides something, which is why they are there. In this case I was pretty sure the bulkhead above hid nothing ( I still think that) so I was hopeful the huge side bulkhead was empty and it was only there so that tub and vanity could meet at a common corner. Regardless, the main thing is I now avoid a few unpleasant surprises.

    Quote Originally Posted by rapida View Post
    With the vent there, it's impossible to have a corner tub there. I won't move the vent if the fireplace will ever be used. Oval tub is not bad, and with your new plan H6, you can have something decorative on the new bulkhead. With an oval tub, you probably will make a bulkhead anyway.
    Yes, new plan H6 is still looking promising and it would have a triangular bulkhead, same angle as the long side of the deck, so it should look fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by rapida View Post
    Some shower door hinges will stop at 90 degrees. Or you can have a door bumper on the wall/corner.
    Yup will need to do one or the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by rapida View Post
    If you do make a wall next to the shower bench, I think you'll need lighting in the shower. If you have all glass panels you probably can go without it, since the light from the rest of the bathroom can fill in the shower space.
    I was planning on a light anyway, as we have one now and are kindda used to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rapida View Post
    Since you need to move the vanity over to the shower side a little bit, or make the vanity a little shorter, you may want to consider building the shower wall a little longer so that you can bring the vanity right next to it. You need 17" overhang a comfortable bench, and 22" to overhang the vanity, that's 5" more. What you gain is a bigger vanity, which you need if you want to have towers on top, (I'd say a 72" vanity is on the short side to accommodate a tower), and more storage in the cabinets.
    Okay, so I was toying with putting a wall there anyway (to avoid the need for custom cut-out glass), so I am following you... and ya, the bench, towel bars/warmers could be parked for the moment, and yes 72” is too short to accommodate a tower; would really need to put them on the opposite wall where the make-up table is, ….. but I and not following the overhang references ( sorry- slightly brain dead with all this planning)... can you elaborate??

    Quote Originally Posted by rapida View Post
    What you lose is the wall space for towels, a bench (really? it doesn't make sense to me because no one is going to sit in that narrow space though), and the open feel in the shower when you have more glass.
    . Re bench etc., it was just a thought to sit some where to undress, take socks off ,etc

    Quote Originally Posted by rapida View Post
    You cannot have the sink too close to the shower anyway, which will limit the placement of your towers.
    Correct, it would took too weird ( and off centre in the room compared to the make-up able) ...but is that what you meant by the overhang … ie extend the vanity countertop 22" beyond the vanity???

    Quote Originally Posted by rapida View Post
    And you definitely need plenty of light in the shower to keep it from a dark corner. So, this option has many of its own limitations.
    Should be addressable with a shower light plus one of six pots planned for the ceiling.

    Quote Originally Posted by rapida View Post
    Well, I'm only throwing ideas here.
    Please do!! Loving it!

    Quote Originally Posted by rapida View Post
    mediaman, it seems that your shower bench does not take up an entire shower wall? Is it on purpose or you just didn't change the bench size?
    It was on purpose to avoid need for the custom glass cutout.. Idea was to either build a wall there, or make the bench shorter.

    Quote Originally Posted by rapida View Post
    I'd say a corner bench is fine, a bench on a full side of wall is fine,
    The corner bench seems a bit lacking when we were in the showrooms, compared to a full or almost full bench. Recall the wife is not 100% re stability on her feet. She wants to know there is a wide solid bench nearby if she needs it. So we didn’t like the corner benches. Amd planning a bench along the long wall didn’t work for us as we already found the shower on the narrow side, which is why we thought to put the bench on the short wall.

    Quote Originally Posted by rapida View Post
    but a narrow space between the bench and shower wall/glass is not good.
    I had heard that before. just not sure why. suppose it was 6" wide. With a slanted floor, is that not sufficient to drain properly?
    Last edited by mediaman; 04-18-2013 at 01:45 PM.

  4. #79
    DIY Member mediaman's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Latest thinking :

    -build short wall near shower to allow for
    • end-to-end bench one shower side,
    • tower on vanity side
    • standard size glass for shower ( fixed pane plus door)

    Note:
    -shower would have light
    -at tub, need to allow for 1 sq ft grill some on deck for air re blower (perhaps at deck kickplate, or 12 x 12 panel where deck meets vanity.
    -at vanity, need to deal with existing floor register (leave as is or elbow into kickplate)


    Next steps
    - finalize tub choice ( likely Oceania Golfe or Sohpia)
    - find vendors re stock and custom vanities and tops
    - faucets
    - tiles treatments for floor, showers, walls
    - electrical plans


    Still lots to do!

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    Last edited by mediaman; 04-19-2013 at 12:18 PM.

  5. #80
    DIY Member mediaman's Avatar
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    Question - some of the tubs we've seen restrict where on the lip the faucets can go. Placing them on the deck however, as shown in the sketch, addresses that issue completely. Is there any disadvantage in locating faucets on the deck?

  6. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by mediaman View Post
    -at tub, need to allow for 1 sq ft grill some on deck for air re blower (perhaps at deck kickplate, or 12 x 12 panel where deck meets vanity.
    -at vanity, need to deal with existing floor register (leave as is or elbow into kickplate)
    I don't quite like to have the grill at a highly visible place (close to the vanity, deck front, etc). I'd rather have it :
    1. below [a], kickplate location
    2. in the closet behind the wall (but may waste closet space since nothing can be put right in front of the grill)
    3. on the ceiling downstairs
    4. at the top of the bulkhead so that it looks like an innocent heat vent (but no way if you want to do something decorative around the bulkhead)

    As for the floor register, you probably can do a toe kick type. If it's on the floor in front of the sink, I'am sure you'll hate it.

    You plan looks very nice. The only thing missing is the place for the towel bar for the shower. There are ones that can go on the shower door. Or you can put it behind the bathroom door. Neither the best location. The most convenient location, IMHO, is either next to the vanity, or on the shower wall. I am not sure if you want to trade a tower or a tall cabinet for a towel bar though. If you have a towel warmer somewhere, maybe you can store the folded towels in the tower for shower use.

    Another thing to keep in mind is you need at least 24" clearance in front of your toilet bowl. I am not quite sure how to measure since your tub deck is at an angle. That's something you need to consult your contractor.

  7. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by mediaman View Post
    Question - some of the tubs we've seen restrict where on the lip the faucets can go. Placing them on the deck however, as shown in the sketch, addresses that issue completely. Is there any disadvantage in locating faucets on the deck?
    Nothing that I know of. If there is a tub deck, I think most people have the the faucet on the deck. The deck, when tiled, is a stronger platform to secure the faucet than the tub can be. You will also have a wider selection of faucets if you do it on the deck, because there are special requirements from each specific tub what the specs of the faucet needs to have if you do tub mount. Just make sure the faucet neck is long enough to reach into the tub when you do deck mount. :P

  8. #83
    DIY Senior Member suceress's Avatar
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    Hmm. Deck mount faucet could be good. even if you made a little wall upward on the southern part of the deck you could have the faucet coming out of the wall (halfwall-- not a full wall). I hope that makes sense.
    Sort of like this:


    But I think you are thinking of something more like this for the faucet:


    I wonder if this tub has enough space where it goes in to wrap around that vent in the bulkhead:

    I'm guessing that it does not. It's a huge tub though. 72x72 or so. I'm not even sure if it is a drop-in.

    I wonder if it would be possible to find a tub that is designed to have the faucet in that corner so it would allow you to cut that corner out for the bulkhead. I'm guessing the answer is "no".

    The more I think about it, the more I believe it would be best to have a tub deck that is comfortable for sit and swing to get in. Say you are waiting for the water to get to the right temperature and want to sit on the edge and check the water with your hand before getting in. It's easier to do while sitting. Also, with your wife's loss of feeling in her feet, if she is stepping in, she might not be able to feel the bottom of the tub very well and may have more of a chance of slipping/sliding a bit and could end up hurting herself by falling in a sort of splits on the tub deck (I have done this while getting in and out of a tub before- it sucks). With some well-placed grab bars, I think the sitting entry is easier. Plus, you are less likely to bang your shins on the edge of the deck that way-- unless you have a soft sort or rubberized edge to protect your shins.

    I'm curious at the choice in toilet. Is that toilet cheaper than the Drake II?

    There are many options for towel bars. I know they actually make shower rods for curtains that have extra bars just for towels. I don't know if they make them long enough for the custom shower though. I wonder if there is a type of towel bar that could go on the outside shower wall. I would hesitate to mount one on the glass. I wonder if there is a folding towel bar that can extend out from the wall when it is needed and then fold back to the wall when its not. For instance, It can be flush against the wall and out of the way when nobody needs a towel. Then it can be folded outward so it sticks out so when a person gets out of the shower, they can just grab a towel and fold the bar back to the wall, dry off, and hang the towel back up or put it in the laundry bin.

    There is a rack that folds up:



    And one that has bars that swivel in both directions:


    I like the bench in the shower, will it have a sort of beveled edge so it will be more rounded rather than being a sharp angle at the front? A curved front can make it more comfortable on the backs of the legs.

    I love the feature on the tub surround thing with the fold-down doors. Where did you find that? I want to put it in Pinterest.

    Rapida, I thought the minimum required distance from the front of the toilet was 21" but that 30" was recommended. According to homerenovations.about.com, the National Kitchen and Bath Association lists it as 21". But I could easily be wrong on that.

    My brain is still in slug mode yesterday. Heat exhaustion is not fun.

    I hope that you find all of the products you need to get this as close as possible to the dream bathroom your wife wanted. I do think its great that you are taking the time to plan and research. It's better to plan ahead and have fewer surprises.
    Last edited by suceress; 04-20-2013 at 06:41 PM.

  9. #84
    DIY Member mediaman's Avatar
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    GRILL for air tub blower - Ya, agree too visible a location is a bad idea ( ie large square area_. Kickplate may be easiest route, as other opions, while all good, will require some mini HVAC work, ie vent in bulkhead or in ceiling below bathroom, or into closet behind tub.

    FLOOR REGISTER - I asked my contractor about this and the grill ( and few dozen other things. We'll see what he says.

    TOWEL BAR

    • Next to shower - Yup, had a good spot for it between vanity and shower, but that got consumed by the tower. Agree I can keep a supply of folded/rolled towels in an open or closed area of that tower.. but no room for a rack.
    • on wall behind the open main entrance door - no room for folding rack, but fixed rack with hooks might work out nice. I like that its out of sight when walking into the bathroom.
    • Near tub - I think fixed or folding racks (thanks for pics) on the wall between toilet and corner unit might work, We saw some wall mounted heated units(!) which looked interesting. Costly toy to run though, and would need a wall plug.

    So that might work - two fixed wallmounted towel racks with hooks, on either side of the make-up unit - heated by tub, not heated by entrance.

    TUB FAUCET LOCATION - We have them on the wall in current set-up- Wife hates it as it splashes all over the place, even with long spout. I thought deck mount (with long spout) would be ideal, but she is pleading with me to please put them on the tub rim. Hmmm. So will need to work with that. (already on thin ice moving away from free standing tub, and then from corner tub !). I contacted some tub mfrs to confirm is faucet can fit on/near side lips. Many do. Placing them on back wall middle, while shown in many pics, is a bad option. While the wife says she doesn't mind climbing into tub to get water running , we'd definitely need to an access door in the closet behind the tub just to get it installed. Sounds too complicated. And front middle is just iin the way. So off to the side is still looking hopeful.

    TOILET- Why not Drake II? , Well, we love Toto, but the one-piece model we liked is $899 here. The St Thomas has similar featues and styling for $349 CDN

    DROP-DOWN SKIRT PANELS - Found them on one the supplier web sites that showroom dealer deals with: See : http://www.apdesignalcidepaquet.com/reguliere_ang.html

    BENCH IN SHOWER - Great idea re beveled/rounded edge !

    LIGHITNG - Right now we have a 3 bulb sconce over the vanity, and a light in the shower. It seems bright enough. Quote from contractor included 6 pot lights ( see sketch below... but I wonder if evn three in the middle would be fine, given we will again also have sconce lights for vanity and a light in shower.

    HEATED FLOORS - Back to that one for a moment - just curious - high install cost aside, how does one typically use this. Ie daily?? turn it on just prior to every bath or shower? .. or is it one all time to avoid cold floors for those 3 am wake calls? Doesn't this get very pricey to operate?



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    Last edited by mediaman; 04-21-2013 at 10:36 AM.

  10. #85

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    Wow, nice! What a spa it will be!

    My two more cents:

    Re lighting, since your bathroom will be bigger, you'll need more lights. I can't remember exactly, but I think the standard goes like one can light every 4 ft. For the space you have, 6 cans sounds about right. I don't know how your electrician charges, mine charges $100 per can. So 6 cans will get pretty expensive. An alternative, which I went with, was putting just one ceiling light that holds 4 bulbs, and forego the can lights. (I also have two vanity bars each holding 3 bulbs). And because the light goes all directions, unlike can lights only downwards, you can get the same amount of lighting as the 6 cans. Some of the semi-flush lights look better than a flush type. Well, it's personal preference whether to go with ceiling lights or can lights. Each has advantages and disadvantages.

    I thought you'll need lights around your makeup area, too. Are you going to have vanity lights or in mirror type?

    Re faucet location, I don't know why you don't like to have it close to the vanity. It seems to me that if you have it on the vanity side, then when you sit in the tub you'll have the view of the vanity and the shower, and more open space. If you have it on the toilet side, then you'll be looking at the toilet and a corner of the bathroom when using the tub. But then , at least you are not sitting right next to the toilet. I can't say which is better. It's your call. And it's also a question for the plumber whether one way is more expensive than the other.
    Last edited by rapida; 04-21-2013 at 08:32 PM.

  11. #86
    DIY Senior Member suceress's Avatar
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    Hmm.. Do you have a Coburn's or something near you? I wonder if you'd be able to find the Drake for cheaper. Oh wait.. You're in Canada. I forgot that for a moment. I've heard sales tax in some areas is pretty high. A friend in Brampton said something about 14% sales tax. It's 10% over where I live and I thought that was really high. I wonder if you'd be able to find a Drake for less if you looked around, but only if you that is something you would want. I have a Drake 1 rather than 2 and it does great for my family. I think it flushes 900grams. The only time we've ever had clogs was because our septic tank was designed for a one bedroom house instead of 3 and our draining guy never drained the tank all the way so stuff kept backing up.

    I don't know how costly PEX is in that area, but it might be an option for getting the the faucet in a spot you like without having to worry about metal pipes that have to bend and such.

    Glad you like the curved bench seat idea. I have a combination of clumsiness and bad luck so I often find ways to injure myself on the most innocuous things. When I was helping the installers with the Infiltrator system for my septic tank, I managed to find a sharp edge on one of the chambers. I've also managed to cut myself on glass shelves (thus my loathing for them) and the metal part of a paintbrush that secures the bristles. My father had to dull/round all of the corners on the counters and cabinets so I wouldn't hurt myself when I was younger. I had to get a foam cover for my trailer hitch because I kept bruising my shins on it. It's actually pretty funny when I think about it, although not funny at the time I hurt myself. I always laugh later.

    A slightly rounded/beveled edge for the tub might be nice to for when people sit on the edge to get in.

    I like the vanity pictures. The look of the one with towers coming all the way down is nicer, but in practical terms, that reduces the counter space and will have to be caulked around and caulk is not always the easiest to clean. So the one with the cabinets mounted on the wall will be easier to clean around. I also like the lights on the mirrors.

    Have you figured out what the lights will look like? I always like the sconces that have the glass thingamajig going downward-- otherwise they catch dust and bugs.

    I think the number of lights depends on how bright they are.

    Do any of the showrooms have functioning examples of the faucets so you could find out if there is any splash when using them? Maybe if you could find some that don't splash all over that are either deck or wall-mounted, your wife might be happy. Perhaps the shape of the faucet itself might have an impact. I don't really know. I know that the distance to the tub bottom and the shape of the tub will affect the flow of the water.

    Rapida, I think the faucet placement near the vanity was nixxed because of access issues. I know that for the shutoff, I would want it right at the front somewhere that was easy to reach.

    I just had a thought on the shower towel bar. I know I said I was dubious about mounting things on the glass, but I realized that there will be a handle to open the door. Would a handle that doubles as a towel bar get in the way? Perhaps you could find one that is short enough that it wouldn't hit the wall?


    Or if you have metal trim at the top of the glass, maybe you could hang a towel rack?


    You might have to ask in another thread about how the floor heating thing works. I've heard that it can help some people save $$ on their heating bill for the entire house, but don't really know. When my headache goes away I might look around and see if there are any threads about it already.

    Btw, I'm glad you started this thread because it has been very informative and interesting for me. :-)

  12. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by suceress View Post
    Rapida, I think the faucet placement near the vanity was nixxed because of access issues. I know that for the shutoff, I would want it right at the front somewhere that was easy to reach.
    I thought the faucet being in the front on the vanity side would be easier to reach (no need to go pass the toilet). But which way to face when taking a bath is a matter of personal preference.

  13. #88
    DIY Member mediaman's Avatar
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    FAUCET LOCATION - Some of the tubs have some sort of headrest (I think I prefer the after-market pillows) on one end only, and weird thicknesses around the lip, all making the facuet placement even more challneging. I am waiting to hear back from the mfr on those models we liked as to confirm what my options are. I do, on refletion, like the faucets back where I had them, by the vanity, thus facing the vanities when using the tub. With the flex tubing, contractor should not care too much wehre we put them as long as there is easy access.

    HEATED FLOOR - I will check other areas of the forum for specifics. Thanks. Spoke to a buddy last night who has heated floors in several bathroomsin home and cottage, and advises the you really dont need the entire floor heated in practice. That is , given one tends to have mats by shower and tub anyway to prevent slips, he finds the only area that needs to be heated is where you stand (or sit) the most, ie small area in front of each sink and toilet. Intersting. He also keep them on 24/7. So I could ask contractor for a revised quote (something less than the excessive $2500), but even if cheaper - still not convinced. Turns out the ensuite is above the laundry room (always warm), and in turn laundry room is above the furnace room. So the ensuite turns out to be in one of the warmest areas of the house. As well, the floor register (at kickplate) is going to end up near my wifes sink, whihc will bring in warm air exactly where its needed. Food for thought.

  14. #89
    DIY Member mediaman's Avatar
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    Question - Are formal architechtual drawings for a bathroom reno needed (ie should they be insisted upon) or are customer sketches (like the recent ones posted), plus documented scope/details, sufficent, to get a shared understanding on what the contractor intends to build and what a customer expects to be built?

  15. #90
    DIY Senior Member suceress's Avatar
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    Mediaman, if you have bath mats and the room is usually warm, then it sounds like you might not need in-floor heating. I'm in a single story home and the underside of my house is not closed off so all of my floors are cold-- even the carpet gets cold-- but not as cold as the rest of the floors. And I suppose there are always slippers. Your wife should be wearing them to protect her feet from injury should she accidentally step on something anyway.

    I have no idea on the architectural drawings and such. I have no idea on that. Might need to ask in the Remodeling section of the forum and see if anyone answers.

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