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Thread: Help installing toilet flange

  1. #16
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    The plumbers don't use a lo-heel outlet in that position. That's meant to be used in the vertical.
    You can use a wye fitting after the 90 bend on the toilet and pick up the lav that way.
    It would be closet flange, 90 bend, wye fitting and then toward the santee on your cast iron stack.

    We don't really pay much attention to what we find. We try to do things an inspector would pass on an inspection with permits.

    The Carlyle will need 9-1/4" from the finished wall to center with the 10" Unifit.
    Floor mold will fit at the wall.

  2. #17
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    You can use a wye fitting after the 90 bend on the toilet and pick up the lav that way.
    It would be closet flange, 90 bend, wye fitting and then toward the santee on your cast iron stack.
    Terry, just for my edification, I'm wondering about the vent. Bert seems to say that additional fixtures have to enter downstream of the vent for the toilet. If the stack is the vent for the toilet, wouldn't using a wye like this mean that the drain for the lav is entering the line upstream of the toilet vent? Particularly if the lav isn't itself properly vented (currently an open question), couldn't using a wye there cause the toilet to siphon the lav's P-trap? (Especially after he installs a Carlyle II?)

  3. #18
    DIY Senior Member lordmoosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    A properly installed PVC pipe fitting has the pipe go all the way to the bottom of the socket. The socket is tapered. The bottom maybe 1/4-1/3 is smaller than the pipe's OD. So, if you push the pipe in until it stops, then measure, when you add the cement, which literally melts the plastic and push it to the bottom, the pipe will be short! You must measure the depth of the sockets, not try to dry fit or the pipe will be short, or the fitting won't end up where you want it. Found some that can fit inside of a 4" pipe, or over a 3" pipe, but not one that will fit over a 4" pipe. Pretty sure they make one...one of the pros may help in that regard. Also, if you don't weight it down, because the socket is tapered, until the cement's solvent evaporates, if you just leave it sit there, it can literally push itself apart. Either screw it down right away, or put something heavy on it until the cement cures. That depends on how much you put on, the temperature, and the size of the fitting. It's really annoying to not do this and come back in a half hour or so and find it rock solid, but now sitting 1/2" above the floor rather than on it!
    The flange I have is designed to have the knockout plug removed after the flange is installed. The farthest I can probably get this pipe up is to the tabs right under where the knockout plug is. Is this wrong?

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  4. #19
    Test, Don't Guess! cacher_chick's Avatar
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    A heel inlet closet bend is never permitted to be installed with the inlet horizontal. This is specifically referenced in our plumbing code. Regardless that someone did it wrong many years ago, it is just as wrong today.

    It also appears that you have installed a fernco style reducer over the hub on the sanitary tee, which is also improper. You need to use a fernco style donut in the hub to make the connection.

    An alternative method of properly plumbing the water closet and the lav would be to replace the existing sanitary tee in the stack with one that has a side inlet, and then running the lav drain to the side inlet. In any case, the lav must have a vent, and this would have been true no matter what year the house was built.

  5. #20
    DIY Senior Member lordmoosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacher_chick View Post
    A heel inlet closet bend is never permitted to be installed with the inlet horizontal. This is specifically referenced in our plumbing code. Regardless that someone did it wrong many years ago, it is just as wrong today.

    It also appears that you have installed a fernco style reducer over the hub on the sanitary tee, which is also improper. You need to use a fernco style donut in the hub to make the connection.

    An alternative method of properly plumbing the water closet and the lav would be to replace the existing sanitary tee in the stack with one that has a side inlet, and then running the lav drain to the side inlet. In any case, the lav must have a vent, and this would have been true no matter what year the house was built.
    If I remove the sanitary tee will the top of the stack fall down or are they usually secured? I'm not clear on how I would remove the tee without having to push the stack up to give sufficient clearance to remove the sanitary tee.

    Also do you know the answer to my flange question? Thanks.

  6. #21
    Test, Don't Guess! cacher_chick's Avatar
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    One would hope that the stack is supported, but I would never take that for granted. A couple of riser clamps blocked in from above is all that it takes.

    If I am understanding your question about the flange, the pipe should bottom out (or be very close to it) in the hub when the cement is applied. If that is the outside fit flange, the riser should come up to about 1/8" from flush with the finished floor.

  7. #22
    DIY Senior Member lordmoosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacher_chick View Post
    One would hope that the stack is supported, but I would never take that for granted. A couple of riser clamps blocked in from above is all that it takes.

    If I am understanding your question about the flange, the pipe should bottom out (or be very close to it) in the hub when the cement is applied. If that is the outside fit flange, the riser should come up to about 1/8" from flush with the finished floor.
    Would you put a cast iron wye or a pvc wye in between the cast iron thats there right now?

  8. #23
    Test, Don't Guess! cacher_chick's Avatar
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    I would stay with the cast iron. If anything shifts a bit during the next 20 years, I would not want the load of the stack placed on a piece of PVC.

  9. #24
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    It looks like no-hub cast iron in there now. If you replace santee on the stack, stay with no-hub.

  10. #25
    DIY Senior Member lordmoosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    It looks like no-hub cast iron in there now. If you replace santee on the stack, stay with no-hub.
    Ok so the plan is replace the current cast iron sanitary tee with a cast iron sanitary tee with a side inlet for the sink. I would use fernco "drums" to make the connection between the cast iron sanitary tee and the pvc from the toilet and sink. I will clamp the cast iron to the joists prior to making any changes. I think I can get all the stuff I need from Home Depot except for the cast iron sanitary tee. Is it ok to reuse the fernco couplings that I have attached to the current sanitary tee (they look young) or should I just replace them?

    As far as venting goes I see no way for me to add a vent to the sink/toilet without ripping the bathroom wall/ceiling out and wall upstairs to send a pipe up all the way to the attic. Further I do not think I have enough room in the wall to send a pipe due to obstructions from water supply pipes and wiring. Any suggestions on this end? All of the plumbing fixtures are going to the main stack. This house was just not built in mind for separate vents as far as I know. Thank you.

  11. #26
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    The lav, should have had a vent going through the roof.
    Otherwise it would be an illegal S trap.

    Bringing the lav waste back to a side outlet santee would still not vent it.

    Reusing the no-hub clamps should be fine.

    Would I remove the santee?
    Nope!
    I still think there is a vent on the lav above the existing p-trap connection until proven wrong.
    One way to see, is to run water down the sink/lav and see if the trap siphons.

  12. #27
    Test, Don't Guess! cacher_chick's Avatar
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    We can only believe what you have told us, which is that the sink is not vented.

    I would not believe Terry's simple test of running some water into the lavatory because of the potentially low flow of the sink's faucet. You would need to drain a full sink or dump a bucket of water into it, and then check to see if the the trap has siphoned.

    If there is not a vent, it might be one of those times that an AAV will have to make do.
    Last edited by cacher_chick; 04-01-2013 at 12:25 PM.

  13. #28
    DIY Senior Member lordmoosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    The lav, should have had a vent going through the roof.
    Otherwise it would be an illegal S trap.

    Bringing the lav waste back to a side outlet santee would still not vent it.

    Reusing the no-hub clamps should be fine.

    Would I remove the santee?
    Nope!
    I still think there is a vent on the lav above the existing p-trap connection until proven wrong.
    One way to see, is to run water down the sink/lav and see if the trap siphons.
    Gotcha. One question... you said you would not remove the santee. Are you saying this because your earlier suggestion to add the wye after the elbow is ok? Thanks.

  14. #29
    Test, Don't Guess! cacher_chick's Avatar
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    The wye downstream of the bend would be correct IF the lav is properly vented. Either way requires the lav to be vented.
    Last edited by cacher_chick; 04-01-2013 at 12:46 PM.

  15. #30
    DIY Senior Member lordmoosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacher_chick View Post
    The wye downstream of the bend would be correct IF the lav is properly vented.
    Ok thank you.

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