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Thread: Hydro Pneumatic to CSV setup

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member joshfish's Avatar
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    Default Hydro Pneumatic to CSV setup

    I am considering moving from my existing hydro pneumatic to a CSV setup and have some questions.

    My existing setup is a submersed pump at approx 40 (forty) feet deep, and a retention tank. Its just my home, 2 bathrooms, washer, my wife and 2 kids. No irrigation, nothing else in the system. The retention tank is inside the house next to the HWT with the pressure switch and a shut off.

    I am in the process of getting all the detailed information about the well, the pump and the tank from the well company who has been servicing the well for the last 35 years prior to my purchasing the property. If you need any of these particulars hopefully ill have them in a few days.

    The reason I am considering the switch is this. Since I have owned the house I have been unsatisfied with the water system. The poor pressure, the fluctuations in pressure and especially the damn noise from air volume control. And finally, the retention tank has two leaks in the side where the wall of the tank seems to have simply rotted away.

    At this point, before I move forward, if I pull the tank and replace it with a CSV setup. Will I have to modify the existing well head setup? Specifically the bleeder orifice and the schrader on the check valve?

    Thanks in advance, let me know if there are any other details I can add to help.


    Last edited by joshfish; 04-20-2013 at 10:39 PM.

  2. #2
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Pulling a pump that is a mere 40 feet deep to remove the bleeder is not a daunting task. You should remove the checkvalve at the tank.

  3. #3
    DIY Junior Member joshfish's Avatar
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    Im not so much concerned with pulling the pump, I feel I can get it figured out. Ive never done it, however I am pretty handy. I just want to make sure that if I install a PSIde-kick / CSV setup in the house I install or replace all the appropriate fittings outside as well.

    Still trying to find out what exact pump I have in the ground...

  4. #4
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    If you plug the bleeder orifice that is about 5’ down in the well, there is no problem replacing that big tank with a Pside-Kick kit and the 4.5 gallon tank. Just make sure you don’t have an air over water type tank for a reason. That kind of system is usually only used when you have iron or sulfur in the water. Mixing air with the water helps eliminate the iron and the sulfur smell if you have those things in your water. If you have iron and sulfur and you change out to a bladder style tank, you may start having smelly water.

  5. #5
    DIY Senior Member craigpump's Avatar
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    We also see bleeders and air releases here Ct where trenches aren't deep enough to prevent freezing

  6. #6
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigpump View Post
    We also see bleeders and air releases here Ct where trenches aren't deep enough to prevent freezing
    Yeah that would be another good reason.

  7. #7
    DIY Junior Member joshfish's Avatar
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    Not so much a problem with freezing where I live.

    News from the well company.

    Tank was replaced in 2002, with a new AVC

    Service call in Feb 2007, stating "tank in house, water logged. pump on 6x 1 1/4 well seal outside in meter box on poly? snifter valve leaking water, pump is showing wear." AVC replaced

    Pump was replaced in May 2007, the hand writing on the invoice states, "3/4HP 10GPM Red Jacket". Some google-ing brought me to some "Red Jacket" brand pumps, however I havent gotten very far with info regarding them. Any thoughts on this pump?

    March 2009 AVC replaced ($160!!! OMFG)

    Jan 2011 - Im the new home owner and I call due to air in the lines. $71 gets me a service call, the tech "cycles the tank to bleed air from system". A month later im back with air blasting out of all the faucets scaring my kids when its time to brush their teeth. ANOTHER service call and $190 later and a new AVC.

    its at this point I took to the internet trying to learn more about wells. I felt every time the pump turned on it was burping entirely too much air into the system. We would essentially hear the hiss from the AVC continuously, all day long. The AVC would let the air out fast enough that the water never got down to the outlet. However so much air would come in at every cycle that the 80 gal tank never contained more than 1/4 full water.

    In the summer of 2012 I replaced the service line from the well head to the tank with new 1.25" poly, along with the manifold to the tank in the picture. I suspected water leaking somewhere in the line between the well and the house, partially at the advice of the well company, although I did the work myself this time.

  8. #8
    DIY Senior Member craigpump's Avatar
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    Labor and materials to change the AVC $190.00? Sounds more than than fair to me as long as the job was done right the first time.

    I have seen plumbers install these tanks so that the inlet is lower than the outlet which then causes the problem of air in the faucets.

  9. #9
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshfish View Post
    I felt every time the pump turned on it was burping entirely too much air into the system. We would essentially hear the hiss from the AVC continuously, all day long.
    The line is only supposed to drain back as far as the bleeder but from what you describe, I'd say the checkvalve in the pump is not holding and it is draining back all the way giving you way too much air to get rid of.

  10. #10
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    The Pside-Kick kit with the 4.5 gallon tank will work great with that pump. The little tank will clear up a lot of space in the utility room, and the CSV1A will deliver great constant pressure to everyone in the house. But you will have to get the bleeder plugged or the check valve fixed so the air can no longer get into the system. You can try to just remove the above ground check valve with the schrader valve, but if the water still leaks back, the air problem will have to be fixed. Of course the air problem needs to be fixed anyway, and this is a good way to do it.

  11. #11
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    The checkvalve in the pump seals better if it has full line pressure pushing against it. There is a chance it will seal once the bleeder and snifter are removed.

  12. #12
    DIY Junior Member joshfish's Avatar
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    So I ordered a Pside-kick kit with the CSV1A, the 4.4gal tank and all the other goodies. Should be here monday afternoon. Only 5 more days of this leaking tank!

    here are a few pics of my well head,





    is there anything I need to know, or any pointers before I start in on this thing? Should I remove that check valve all together? What will I expect as far as the bleeder down line and how to cap it? The head appears to be bolted to the top of the sleeve, is this a flange or a compression type setup?

    Thanks to all for the input and advice, im glad I decided to give the CSV a try and cant wait to install it next weekend.

  13. #13
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    I would try removing the checkvalve/snifter up top and see if the checkvalve in the pump holds. If the bleeder is of good quality it might hold up to the pressure and simply stay closed. If not, then you will have to uncap the well and pull it.

    That well seal has a rubber compression seal. DO NOT completely remove the bolts otherwise the bottom plate could fall down the well and prevent you from ever pulling the pump.

  14. #14
    DIY Junior Member joshfish's Avatar
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    what might that 3/8" hose be on the top left portion, heading out into the ground?

  15. #15
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    That is a vent line. Because the well seal is below grade, it needs to be sealed and thus needs a vent to be raised up above grade.

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