Replacing/retrofitting an old wall mounted toilet

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Mosh Pit

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From the tank's #, it appears that this a "Yorkville" toilet, in which case it is a "rear outlet floor mounted" toilet NOT a wall mounted one. Therefore, if this is indeed the case, the "commercial" wall mounts, or even the residential ones would NOT work for you. You need a "ROFM" toilet and they are commonly interchangeable as far as the tile under and behind them is concerned. Keep the "blue junk" out of the tank.
 
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Jadnashua

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Other than replacing the fill valve and the flapper valve, you can't really upgrade a toilet much of any...the key is to ensure that when replacing the fill valve is that both the tank AND the bowl get refilled without wasting a lot of water. The bowl will only hold so much, and any extra just drains out on its own. So, unless you buy an exact replacement (and the old ones typically overfilled the bowl by sometimes gallons!), you need to pick up one that is adjustable - Korky makes a nice one with clear instructions. A toilet whose bowl is not full when you start does not flush well. The flapper valve on older toilets stayed open until the tank was essentially empty...they were designed that way. Most of the new toilets do not...the flapper is either weighted or has calibrated holes in it to close once the proper amount is dumped. If your toilet is designed to use the whole tank, unless you use a flapper designed to dump it all, it may not flush well. An OEM flapper should work properly, but there are also some that are adjustable. Note where the flapper closes, and if you get an adjustable one, adjust it so it closes at the same level.
 

broesau

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If you do replace the toilet get a pressure assist model. The gravity fed rear discharge models just don't cut the mustard, the path of the trapway doesn't provide enough siphon for a gravity. Gerber now makes a 1.28 flushmate rear outlet, Kohler has a 1.0, but I'd rather have a little more water for a rear outlet.
 

hj

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ALL you need is a new fill valve, a rubber flapper, but NOT an "adjustable" or low flush version, and a trip lever because that one looks scuzzy. Your flush valve does not need to be replaced. Then it should be "as good as new".
 

WJcandee

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ALL you need is a new fill valve, a rubber flapper, but NOT an "adjustable" or low flush version, and a trip lever because that one looks scuzzy. Your flush valve does not need to be replaced. Then it should be "as good as new".

This kit from Korky at Lowe's should do the trick: http://www.lowes.com/pd_102579-868-...t=korky&pl=1&currentURL=?Ntt=korky&facetInfo=

I have 7 of this type of fill valve at home, and all my toilets use Korky flappers.

And you can then decide what handle to get. There are also a zillion styles of handle online. Just remember when replacing the handle that the nut holding it to the inside of the tank is reverse-threaded. That is, you turn it clockwise to LOOSEN. In other words, it's righty-loosy, lefty-tighty instead of righty-tighty, lefty-loosy.
 

WJcandee

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Thanks everyone, especially broesau for providing some brands that sell what I need. Now that I see that Gerber sells some in the high 300's I think I will just buy a replacement toilet. Does anyone have experience with the Gerber 1.28 rear outlet toilets? The bathroom where this toilet is has been built with ADA in mind and I believe the toilet is the ADA version so I will stick with an ADA replacement.

Here is the one I am looking at

That pressure assist is going to be a heck of a lot louder than the one it's replacing.

One big concern I have is that you need to check the parts list on that toilet and make sure that it's using a Flushmate by Sloan, not the WDI dual-flush. That this toilet uses a dual-flush makes me think that it's the WDI unit. This is critical because there have been a zillion posts over the years about how the WDI pressure assist thing is an unreliable piece of crap. One of our posters has them in a hotel -- he has hundreds of them -- and their failure rate, over and over in the same toilet, is so high it is overwhelming him. So beware. Terry calls it unacceptable in his toilet reviews.

Also, for ten bucks and 15 minutes of your time, you can put in that new fill valve and flapper, as I did in a couple of our toilets, and be very happy about the way it's working. Why not try that first?
 

Terry

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If you keep the old bowl, you will need to keep it a 3.5 GPF
Less then that, and it may have issues.

If you're looking to use less, then they do make 1.0, 1.28 and 1.60

These typically use the same bowl, but a different tank.

Floor mounted rear outlet
American Standard Yorkville pressure assist
Kohler Barrington pressure assist
Gerber Ultraflush 21-310 pressure assist
Gerber Maxwell 20-022 gravity

Wall Hung
American Standard Glenwall pressure assist
Gerber Maxwell gravity 20-021 gravity

Floor mount rear outlet bowl

 
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WJcandee

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I'm never going to tell you not to go to a water-saving model, so let's talk Gerber!

I double-checked, and here's the piece that lays out the UltraFlush models: http://www.gerberonline.com/downloads/productliterature/fixtures/Ultra_Flush.pdf

And, upon further research, here's the deal: You are correct to go for the 21-325, as it is the ADA height you want with the rear discharge. However, the question is which version to get: the 21-325, the EF-21-325, or the DF-21-325.

My advice would be to AVOID THE DF VERSION. I checked the pressure-assist units, and it appears that WDI is still the manufacturer of the dual-flush. You just don't want it, based on all the comments on this forum over the past few years. WDI used to have a troll that would get on here and say that we were wrong and it was fixed, blah, blah, but the reality is, complaints still came in. The FlushMate hasn't had these issues, and the exploding FlushMate IIIs have been replaced in the last 5 or more years by one that has sold hundreds of thousands of units with no problems.

If water-saving were my goal, I would buy the 1.1gpf version (the EF), because that should be sufficient to flush anything meaningful. Both the 1.1 and the 1.6 are official Sloan Flushmates, only the dual-flush is the WDI unit. At 1000+ in the MAP testing, I think you're not going to have an issue. However, if you have family members who clog the bowl regularly, then I would get the 1.6, and be satisfied that I had done my part to help reduce water usage.

But I would avoid the dual-flush on this toilet.

Shop around because delivered prices are going to vary widely, even at different plumbing suppliers in the same town. I would call and ask for a price on the specific model number you want, in the color you want. Pull the yellow pages and make yourself call five places. You will be surprised what you find.
 

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Terry, he's looking for ADA Height, so that's why I recommended the 21-325 in the Gerber line, rather than the 310.

His current toilet appears to be an old Yorkville 3.5.
 

WJcandee

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Regarding the question on noise: Terry says in his reviews that the noise may startle, but less than before on the UltraFlush. Some toilets are noisier than others, but since they use the same mechanism inside, it's going to be a function of the shape and thickness of the china, and also where it's installed. I have some identical toilets that are louder in some locations than others -- just the nature of acoustics, I guess.

Here's the terrylove.com thread on the UltraFlush: https://terrylove.com/forums/showth...ssure-assist-toilet-review-and-comments/page1

It basically confirms what we have been saying, i.e. don't get the dual-flush. But it raises another issue: bowl wash. The 1.1 apparently doesn't have very good bowl wash. The 1.6 is apparently-better. The pressure-assists in general apparently have less bowl wash than say the latest Totos. But of course, all the low flows have less bowl-wash than many older toilets, because there isn't as much water used...
 

Jadnashua

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You need enough drop for the toilet bend and then slope of at least 1/4" per foot to where you can join into the main drain line. ANd, you'd want the flange hole 12" from the finished wall to maximize your choices of properly fitting 'normal' toilets. A lot of people prefer a wall-mounted toilet since they're easier to clean, but you do have LOTS more choices of styles if you go with a floor mount traditional toilet with a flange at 12". FWIW, code requires a minimum of 15" to any obstruction either side of the toilet centerline, and if you're moving things, the inspector will want to see that.
 

Mosh Pit

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You need enough drop for the toilet bend and then slope of at least 1/4" per foot to where you can join into the main drain line. ANd, you'd want the flange hole 12" from the finished wall to maximize your choices of properly fitting 'normal' toilets. A lot of people prefer a wall-mounted toilet since they're easier to clean, but you do have LOTS more choices of styles if you go with a floor mount traditional toilet with a flange at 12". FWIW, code requires a minimum of 15" to any obstruction either side of the toilet centerline, and if you're moving things, the inspector will want to see that.

Hi Jim,

Not looking to move the toilet. I want to put it in the same exact spot but just have it go through the floor. I think I can meet the slope and flange distance. My concern is with the block wall. Do you guys ever get jobs where you need to put a hole through a foundation block wall for a pipe to an addition? Thanks.
 

Jadnashua

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Nothing says you can't go around the wall (well, there are limits on the number of turns before a cleanout is required) unless the flange would be immediately lined up with that wall.
 

Mosh Pit

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Hmmm this is a tough call. On one hand I am stuck with some inferior options and on the other hand I'd have to go through a lot of hell to put in a Toto.

We spoke a lot about Gerber options. Does anyone have any experience with the American Standard Yorkville toilets? How do they fare against the Gerbers we talked about?

1.1GPF and 1.6GPF options
 

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I am having a similar problem. I have a home in Wisconsin and all the toilets (3) are wall hung. I am replacing them with rear ejection and floor mount. This requires a toilet flange on the wall to hold the anchor bolts. My problem is the pipe is black abs and for some reason they used a 4x3 fitting into the 3" t. I cant figure out what fitting to use on this. I wish i could remove the fitting they put in and go straight into the 3" t. This is the picture of the makeup that i am working with.

Wisconsin Toilet.JPG
 
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Terry

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I have a home in Wisconsin and all the toilets (3) are wall hung.

Why don't use install new wall hung bowls?
Gerber makes the Maxwell
https://terrylove.com/pdf/gerber_20-021_spec.pdf

And American Standared makes a Glenwall.

If you go with floor mount, rear discharge, you will need to lower the flange to 4-1/4" off the finished floor and change the flange.
If you do change the flange, you can drill it out with a rambit.

 
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jackbyrnes

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Thanks Terry. Actually the center is at 4 1/4 already. From your experience is the fitting on the picture going into the t a closet collar without a flange? If it is do you know of a replacement flange that i could use between this fitting and the the 3" t? I was going to do wall hung again but wanted the extra support that the floor mount offered. I was going to replace and go floor mount, but that would require lowering the ceilings in 2 stacked bathrooms below the highest point. I am using the American Standard Yorkville.
 

Terry

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What you have is a wall hung flange for a wall mounting neopreme seal.
Normally you would have a closet flange with ring for the closet bolts to cinch up to the bowl.
 
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