Toto Fill Valve Problem

**Kiko** · 02-01-2013, 03:32 PM

A family member has a Toto toilet. He says, when it is flushed, there is a delay of more than six seconds before it begins refilling the tank. After the long pause, it refills quickly. He said that it used to refill instantly when it was flushed.

Is the fill-valve on the way out or can it be adjusted?

**jadnashua** · 02-01-2013, 03:50 PM

Most of the Toto toilets come with a valve made for them by Korky. If they have that one, the only real wear part in the refill valve is the seal cap, available at Lowes and most hardware stores. It takes about a minute to replace with no tools. That will probably resolve this. But, as long as it doesn't overfill, and does refill the toilet, you can live with it for a long time. The instructions are on the package. Basically, turn the water off, pop the cover off the top of the refill valve, twist the seal cap, remove the cap, put a new cap on, put the cover back on, turn on the water. Details are on the package...cost about $3. This is true for any toilet that uses the Korky refill valves.

**wjcandee** · 02-01-2013, 04:13 PM

Just clean out the little hole in the bottom of the float housing, and you will be back in business. The thing is designed not to start spilling refill water the moment you pull the handle because that water is wasted. Instead, there is a little check ball and hole in the float housing that retains water in the housing for a couple of seconds to delay the,start of refill until the flapper has closed or is about to close. If it gets schmutz in it, it narrows and delays the onset of refill longer. There are written instructions on the korky web site, as well as links to videos, on how to clean the valve. It requires no tools, is easy, and only takes five minutes. Sometimes just running your finger around under the float housing's end, and over that little hole a couple of times, without doing anything else, will clear it.

**Kiko** · 02-01-2013, 06:12 PM

Thanks to you both.

RE: the Korky website, I looked at all their videos on troubleshooting and maintenance of the 528 Quiet Fill, and they don't mention this problem of "delayed fill".

http://korky.com/quietfill.html

Is there any reason I can't replace this with a 400A?

**wjcandee** · 02-01-2013, 06:20 PM

No, they don't mention this issue on the site. They tell you generally how to service the valve. Cleaning around that little hole is extra-credit.

It's an issue I know enough about the valve to tell you how to fix, but it's not a common issue. Cleaning that area is mentioned on this Toto piece, part of Item 8 on the Type B valve: http://www.bayplumbingsupply.com/ima...ns-rev06-1.pdf

The reason you can't replace this with a 400A is that you won't get enough refill. A GMax Toto requires a 40 percent refill ratio; the 400A produces the standard 20%. If you don't get enough refill ratio, the water spot in the bowl will be too low -- eeew -- and when you go to flush part of the flush water will be used to raise the level of water in the bowl and the flush sequence will be off; i.e. the performance will be degraded.

You want to replace it, replace it with a Korky 528MPK (or MP) from Lowe's. That has a variable refill ratio, from zero to 40%.

I actually think the 528 is a much better valve than the 400A. I'm not going to give you the litany, because there are old timers on here who swear by the 400A. Suffice it to say that you're doing your relative a disservice by going the Fluidmaster route, particularly since anything on a 528 can be fixed very quickly and easily by non-professionals. And if it's important to you, the 528 is made in Wisconsin while the 400A is hecho en Mexico.

So just get your relative to run his finger over the bottom of the valve and see if that doesn't fix it. If not, a quick valve service should do it. Then leave it alone, and it should work great for some time to come.

**wptski** · 02-01-2013, 06:41 PM

Fluidmaster has a 400A version with adjustable refill also. Lots of stuff is "assembled" in the USA but the parts aren't made here.

**jadnashua** · 02-01-2013, 08:06 PM

The Korky is MUCH quieter during refill and shutoff, and is an easily maintained valve. Most people don't have issues, but some water supplies have issues. Personally, having used both, I prefer the Korky.

**wjcandee** · 02-01-2013, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by wptski

Fluidmaster has a 400A version with adjustable refill also. Lots of stuff is "assembled" in the USA but the parts aren't made here.

Every bit of the Korky 528 is made here.

The "adjustable" Fluidmaster 400A, to coin a phrase, sucks. Its refill-adjustment "slider" is not continuously-variable and operates by pinching the rubber hose in one of only 5 "settings". The result is a refill ratio that in my personal experience is not consistent and certainly not as precise as the 528MP.

**wptski** · 02-02-2013, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by wjcandee

Every bit of the Korky 528 is made here.

The "adjustable" Fluidmaster 400A, to coin a phrase, sucks. Its refill-adjustment "slider" is not continuously-variable and operates by pinching the rubber hose in one of only 5 "settings". The result is a refill ratio that in my personal experience is not consistent and certainly not as precise as the 528MP.

Unless you have some person inside Korky, it's pretty hard to say that every part is made here. I have a Fluidmaster 540AKR box right here an it's clearly marked "Assembled in Mexico" which doesn't mean the parts are made there also. There are US companies that send US made parts to Mexico for assembly.

What's in the Korky adjustment valve? Just something with a hole that turns to partially block the hole? Don't see much difference between blocking or pinching but continuously variable is better than steps of course.

**Terry** · 02-02-2013, 08:44 AM

Is there any reason I can't replace this with a 400A?

You can, but it doesn't adjust for bowl fill or overfill
It's also pretty noisy and can have some water hammer when it shuts off.
But the 400A has been a basic replacement valve. Basic is the operative word here.

**MattH** · 02-20-2013, 07:14 PM

Hi - I have the delayed fill, then fill, then water hammer at the end of cycle - Diagnosis? Thanks!

**wjcandee** · 02-20-2013, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by MattH

Hi - I have the delayed fill, then fill, then water hammer at the end of cycle - Diagnosis? Thanks!

Take a look at this piece, and let us know whether you have the Type A or Type B valve (or some other); that will make it easier to help: http://www.bayplumbingsupply.com/ima...ns-rev06-1.pdf

**MattH** · 02-23-2013, 04:24 AM

It's a type B -- I did try the clean out as described on that flyer, and can do again but am wondering if the water hammer means I have a non-valve problem. Thanks!

**wjcandee** · 02-23-2013, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by MattH

It's a type B -- I did try the clean out as described on that flyer, and can do again but am wondering if the water hammer means I have a non-valve problem. Thanks!

Cleaning out the area with the check ball on it should solve the slow start. The water hammer could be a variety of things; has it always existed with this valve or did it just start. If it just started, and the valve is a few years old, I might buy that little replacement cap, Korky R528 at Lowe's for less than $3 and see if that doesn't fix it -- did the rubber seal look like a flat disk or did it have deep indentations in it. If the latter, then it's wearing out. There's a video on how to service the Korky 528 on Youtube; you might give that a look as well, although the piece I posted is pretty comprehensive.

As you know, water hammer is a shock wave that propagates back up a pipe when a valve closes suddenly (hydraulic shock). Although high or excessive static water pressure doesn't create water hammer per se, it can exacerbate it to the point that there's a noticeable wave where before there was a negligible wave. Certainly I would get yourself a little pressure meter with a telltale for less than $10 at the hardware store and leave it on for a day to see what the peak pressure is, and what the pressure is when you are experiencing the hammer. If it's above 80 psi, it's too high -- 60 is fine. If it's rising and falling, you could have a failing or nonexistent pressure reducing valve on your water supply or a failing or nonexistent thermal expansion tank on your water heater (essential if you have a "closed" domestic water system, i.e. a check valve or backflow preventer at your meter or at your pressure reducing valve).