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Thread: Advice appreciated on appropriate toilet

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member JerryMR's Avatar
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    Default Advice appreciated on appropriate toilet

    I'm a homeowner and I'm having a bathroom remodel done right now and trying to figure out the right toilet to get. We have two main requirements:

    1. Dual flush
    2. Our 7 year old is disposed towards large, less soft poop, the sort which frequently requires plunging the existing toilet. So we want one that will handle that well.

    After doing a bit of reading, we are tending towards the Toto Maris, since it has Dual Max and Double Cyclone and Sanagloss. On the other hand, this is a relatively new model with not many reviews. There are two things I'm still unsure about. I've read the shape of the trapway is a factor in things getting stuck, but I have no idea whether the Maris is good in this regard. Second, the bigger flush is 1.28. How important is it that it's not 1.6, given the other technology on this model?

    Any info on whether this seems like a good choice for our needs, or pointers towards a better solution, are greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Jerry

  2. #2
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    large, less soft poop
    Then I would be looking something in the Caroma line. Their trapway is the largest out there at about 3"
    The Maris, which works fine for the other 99% is 2-1/8"

    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...ghlight=stools
    Last edited by Terry; 01-30-2013 at 11:54 AM.

  3. #3
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    As regards your other questions on the Maris:

    Presumably, you're talking about the floor-standing Maris, not the wall-hung, correct?

    1.28gpf is fine in the Toto line -- it gets the job done. Some of the savings there is in keeping bowl-refill water from running down the drain in any event, not in materially-reducing the flush effectiveness. (Remember, "gallons per flush" means "gallons of water flowing through the pipe from the wall from the time you pull the flush handle until the time the toilet shuts off". Run an extra gallon down the drain because you overfill the bowl with refill water, and that counts, even if the amount of water used TO FLUSH is the same.)

    Toto's trapway design is the best in the industry. They were the first to use a "dual-siphon" trapway, which was a real breakthrough in getting the 1.6gpf toilets to work properly.

    If you're looking at the dual-flush because you want to save water or help the environment, another alternative you might wish to consider is to go with the new Toto Drake II 1G, which is a 1.0gpf toilet, in which Toto tweaked the trapway to work well on 1 gallon per flush. It's relatively-new, but they have been out there a few months and the few reviews I have seen so far are positive. No feedback yet on this site; Terry just now has them available. They're going to be a bit less expensive than the Maris, and look nice.

    But if your offspring really does produce waste in that top percentile of waste, then the Caroma trapway may be a godsend.

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    Plumber jimbo's Avatar
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    We have to get used to the 1.28, which is being phased in as the spec in many, in not all, states. But a dual flush calculates an average, like 3 #1 and 1 #2, so in those cases you can still get 1.6 gpf for a waste flush.

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    DIY Junior Member JerryMR's Avatar
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    Terry: those large traps on the Caromas look great. I have to check with the wife if the splashiness and poor cleaning is a deal breaker. One question on these: do the Caromas use standardized parts inside, or is it all custom? How much of a worry is it having to find replacement parts?

    wjcandee: yes, floor-standing, not wall-hung. I'll have to read up on the Drake II, thanks.

    I guess the main thing I have to figure out is if the existing toilets get clogged because my son has 1% poops, or if the toilet is just bad.

  6. #6
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    You didn't mention what you currently have and how old it is. Many of the 3.5g toilets were dogs, and many company's first (and second, and even later) attempts at the 1.6g versions weren't very good, either. It takes some actual engineering to make a low gpf (gallon per flush) toilet work well.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  7. #7
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryMR View Post
    I guess the main thing I have to figure out is if the existing toilets get clogged because my son has 1% poops, or if the toilet is just bad.
    Tell us what you've got. We probably have an opinion.


    The Drake II 1G is model CST454CUFG. The 1.28gpf Drake II is CST454CEFG. E for Eco. U for Ultra-Low Flush.

  8. #8
    DIY Junior Member JerryMR's Avatar
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    Good question - I will post existing toilet info tonight once I get home.

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    DIY Junior Member JerryMR's Avatar
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    I have a Kohler, an Eljer, and something blue. The first two pictures are the Kohler, the next two are the blue one, and the last three are the Eljer (the worst of the bunch). I think they're all 1.6 gallon.

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    Last edited by JerryMR; 01-31-2013 at 08:24 PM.

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    DIY Junior Member JerryMR's Avatar
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    I guess there's a photo limit. Here are the other two pics of the Eljer.

    Name:  eljer2.jpg
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  11. #11
    DIY Junior Member JerryMR's Avatar
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    It turns out the Maris is unacceptable, since we need something available in biscuit, and the Maris only comes in white. So if we use Toto, it would have to be the Aquia.

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    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Thanks for the photos of the toilets! One way to confirm their identity is to look inside the tank and see what numbers are there. On the Kohler, it would be a number that begins with a K, or example.

    On the biscuit toilet, the Drake II 1G that I mentioned also only comes in white at this time. (The regular Drake II comes in other colors, but for now the 1G only comes in cotton white.) So I guess you are right if you want an ultra-water-saving Toto it's gonna be the Aquia.

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    DIY Junior Member JerryMR's Avatar
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    OK, the blue one is a Gerber and only says W4. The Eljer says 1410230, and the Kohler says K4620CA. Below the K number, it says 14 97 086. I guess that's easier than posting pictures.

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    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    The pictures are more fun, though!!

    So we have a Kohler Wellworth circa late 2000s, and an Eljer Cypress. Both of them are 1.6gpf. I'm a little less sure about the Gerber, but I'll look around.

    About the late-2000s version of the Wellworth, Terry said in 2009: "The lower trapway of the Wellworth is known for clogging.
    Elongated bowl, 125 grams
    Regular bowl, 250 grams"

    So the Wellworth of that era wouldn't likely flush as well as the Aquia, all of which have a MAP rating of 500 grams or better (800 on some). Of course, the floor-mount Aquia comes in a number of flavors, one-piece and two-piece, universal-height and not. The Kohler color "biscuit" is equivalent to Toto "Sedona Beige". All three flavors are available in Sedona Beige.
    Last edited by wjcandee; 01-31-2013 at 10:56 PM.

  15. #15
    DIY Junior Member JerryMR's Avatar
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    The Eljer is late 2000s, but the Kohler and the Gerber came with the house, which we bought about 10 years ago.

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