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Thread: 7000sxt - Sizing For Now vs Sizing For the Future?? Rapidly Growing Family

  1. #16
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    On the other hand, ya can't beat a 2510.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  2. #17
    DIY Junior Member Philadd's Avatar
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    When should you use a gravel underbed? Is this something I should be considering?

  3. #18
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    IMO there is no down side to a gravel underbed.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  4. #19
    DIY Junior Member Philadd's Avatar
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    Just found out that when our house was built they bypassed the cold to kitchen sink and outside hosebibs from the main line so even with the water softener we will still have 20gpg hard water coming through the kitchen sink. The spots in the sink are driving me crazy!!! Are there any pou filters I can get for hardness specifically for the kitchen sink or should I try to find the line to sink and try to tie it back into the softened line? I understand why they did it but since we already have an ro system installed i'm not not too concerned about the additional salt in the drinking water. Also, I've read that increased hardness will foul up the ro membrane faster if its not addressed. Thoughts?

  5. #20
    Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek Mikey's Avatar
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    Do it right. Find the line and eliminate the bypass, or install valves to make it optional.

  6. #21
    DIY Junior Member Philadd's Avatar
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    Okay so here's my next question. Is there a standard location for where the T to the kitchen sink would be so I don't go punching holes all over everywhere in my garage walls? Should it be somewhere near the loop for the water softener or could it really be anywhere? The house is a new build so I guess as a last resort I could try to get in touch with the company that plumbed the house if I can find out who they are?

  7. #22
    Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek Mikey's Avatar
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    It's likely near the softener, but no guarantees. See if the builder or your local building official has an as-built plan they could give you a copy of. That's a good thing to have anyway.

    Remember, to be delivering unsoftened water, that line has to originate upstream from the softener. Softeners are usually installed near the point of entry of the water line into the house, so if you poke around between the softener and the POE, you might find what you're looking for. Unfortunately, maybe, since the hose bibs are also on raw water (a good idea, mostly), the upstream tap you'll find probably feeds the hose bibs, and the sink is tapped off that line way downstream. Is there a hose bib on the outside wall near the sink? It may be hard to find the source for the sink. You are probably looking at running a new water line to the sink from the most convenient source of softened water. Any cold water fixture is an eligible candidate, including the toilets, probably. In Phoenix, I'd guess your plumbing is under the slab, but it's also legal and practical to run new piping on the outside walls.Time to get creative.
    Last edited by Mikey; 02-18-2013 at 05:52 AM.

  8. #23
    DIY Junior Member Philadd's Avatar
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    Good idea. Thanks

  9. #24
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Or they run the lines outside along the side of the house, underground and enter under/in the slab where needed.

    The only way to find out is to contact the builder/plumber or dig up the main or open walls.

    IMO there should be a law against plumbing raw water to the kitchen sink in slab construction.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  10. #25
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    True, the RO membrane will not last as long if it is fed with hard water, but the price of membranes has dropped so much in the past 25 years that is really no longer a concern. We used to try to get 5-7 years out of a membrane with pre-treatment. Now that membranes are 1/10th of the cost they used to be, annual to semi annual replacements is not a big deal. Good luck finding the kitchen sink bypass, every builder does it differently, it is usually based on cost as to how and where they bypass the cold kitchen sink. Another solution, if you have a tankless water heater, turn the temperature down to 108, and only use the hot water at the kitchen sink since it is soft. I prefer it in my own house, and take a "hot only" shower. This will also add a safety factor if you have kids or elderly for elimination of any scaldinig potential. Do not do this if you have a tank heater! They can become breeding grounds for bacteria.

  11. #26
    DIY Junior Member Philadd's Avatar
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    Found out they split the cold line to the kitchen sink right by the main coming into the house. Unfortunately, it's on the complete opposite side of the house from where my loop is and I'd have to rip apart one of bathrooms to get to it. So it's really not worth it. We do have a tankless water heater so I think we'll only be using hot water at the kitchen sink from now on.

    On to my next and hopefully final question for you. Our softener and all of the supplies are scheduled to show up Wednesday. Wondering if you could help me out with programming the correct settings for efficiency. Here's what I'm thinking. I purposely bought a system that's a little oversized for our needs right now. Currently we have two adults and a teenage boy. Twins are on the way so eventually we will have five people. For now though it's only three. I would estimate our daily usage at ~200 gallons. 200 gallons per day x 20gpg hardness x 8 day regen = 32,000 grains. If I program my valve as a 2.0 rather than a 2.5 and set it for 8lbs of salt I think that gets me close based on some of the research I've done. Does this sound correct? Ditto, if and when you have the time could you help me out with the proper settings like I've seen you do for some other folks? I'd really appreciate it. This is really the last piece of the puzzle for me. You have all been so helpful. Without this forum I'm really not sure I would have had the courage to tackle this project on my own. It's been quite a learning experience.

  12. #27
    DIY Junior Member Philadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    Or they run the lines outside along the side of the house, underground and enter under/in the slab where needed.

    The only way to find out is to contact the builder/plumber or dig up the main or open walls.

    IMO there should be a law against plumbing raw water to the kitchen sink in slab construction.
    I couldn't agree more!!

  13. #28
    Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philadd View Post
    Found out they split the cold line to the kitchen sink right by the main coming into the house. Unfortunately, it's on the complete opposite side of the house from where my loop is and I'd have to rip apart one of bathrooms to get to it. So it's really not worth it. We do have a tankless water heater so I think we'll only be using hot water at the kitchen sink from now on.
    Is there an icemaker in the fridge? That might be a soft-water line which you might be able to get to somehow. Never give up...

    Next house you build, run a soft-cold, hard-cold, and hot-return loop to all fixtures. Then you can use solar power to have instant (and free) hot water everywhere, and choose what you want at each point of use. Also make sure there's one soft hose bib for washing the car, boat, plane, etc. A hot hose bib is handy as well.

  14. #29
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    What unit did you get? I will gladly post the programming sheet for it.

    Congrats on the twins!

  15. #30
    DIY Junior Member Philadd's Avatar
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    Unfortunately the T'd the refrigerator line off of the cold line under the kitchen sink. I've already re-routed the refrigerator line through the ro system so at least we have good water going to the frig now.

    Went with the 2.5 cubic foot with 7000sxt valve.

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