New Delta Toilets at Home Depot

[Whitlow]

I just installed a new Delta Corrente today. I decided on it because of several unique features like the tank bolts do no connect through the tank and the supply line connects through the top of the tank and the flush value is almost 4 inches. It's the only toilet I've seen with these design features. I'll report back how it holds up and performs. So far the only thing I didn't like is the seat which I replaced with the slow close seat I already had.

I was really tempted to get the AS Champion 4 because of the videos I've seen of it flush and I thought the flush valve issues were fixed, but some on here were saying even with a new Korky seal some say it still leaked.

[wjcandee]

Interesting. Is this a Delta-licensed product, or a Delta product made by Delta here in the US? Let us know how it flushes. Let us know the china quality and where it is made. I guess there are no standard parts in it, looking at how it's laid out. Any explanations of the merits of any of them? Obviously, you're not going to find that fill valve anywhere but from Delta in 10 years, and it's not going to cost $10.

What could the merits be of having the fill valve feed from a braided supply that enters the top of the toilet? Fewer penetrations in the porcelain below the water line? Is there really a significant problem out there with leakage around the fill valve penetration in the porcelain (where it's in the same place it is in my American Standard model from the year 1927)? My 1927 toilet doesn't have that problem, and I just installed a new Korky fill valve in it for $8.

I saw in another post where Terry believed that somewhere between 2.5 and 3 inches was the ideal flush valve size, that 3" might be too much. Interesting that Delta went for "the biggest" at 3.75", which isn't necessarily optimal. Kohler tried that previously (wanting to be "the biggest"), then backed away from it.

Finally, I am curious about the apparent trend, exhibited here, towards reducing or eliminating the opening at the top of the overflow riser. I notice that Korky has, in contrast, moved towards a wider-diameter riser, which really can keep the water from overflowing the tank in the event of a runaway fill valve. Everyone else, it seems, has narrowed the opening at the top of the riser, which -- unless I am missing some design feature that I can't see -- would seem to reduce the toilet's ability to keep from overflowing in the event of a fully-runaway fill valve.

[jimbo]

Delta website shows their small line of toilets, and notes they are available ONLY at the depot. So we can be assured they are made under license, probably in China. What are the odds that the depot will stock any repair parts???? NOT GOOD!!!!!

[Whitlow]

Interesting. Is this a Delta-licensed product, or a Delta product made by Delta here in the US? Let us know how it flushes. Let us know the china quality and where it is made. I guess there are no standard parts in it, looking at how it's laid out. Any explanations of the merits of any of them? Obviously, you're not going to find that fill valve anywhere but from Delta in 10 years, and it's not going to cost $10.

Yep I worry about that fill valve too.

What could the merits be of having the fill valve feed from a braided supply that enters the top of the toilet? Fewer penetrations in the porcelain below the water line? Is there really a significant problem out there with leakage around the fill valve penetration in the porcelain (where it's in the same place it is in my American Standard model from the year 1927)? My 1927 toilet doesn't have that problem, and I just installed a new Korky fill valve in it for $8.

Fewer penetrations in the porcelain below the water line is the only reason I can see. I have had leaks on mine before but it was usually just after replacing the fill valve and corrected right away with no future problems.

I saw in another post where Terry believed that somewhere between 2.5 and 3 inches was the ideal flush valve size, that 3" might be too much. Interesting that Delta went for "the biggest" at 3.75", which isn't necessarily optimal. Kohler tried that previously (wanting to be "the biggest"), then backed away from it.

Crap, I missed that discussion! I assumed the bigger the better because from video's to me the AS Champion 4 seemed to have the most powerful flush with its 4 inch fill valve.

Finally, I am curious about the apparent trend, exhibited here, towards reducing or eliminating the opening at the top of the overflow riser. I notice that Korky has, in contrast, moved towards a wider-diameter riser, which really can keep the water from overflowing the tank in the event of a runaway fill valve. Everyone else, it seems, has narrowed the opening at the top of the riser, which -- unless I am missing some design feature that I can't see -- would seem to reduce the toilet's ability to keep from overflowing in the event of a fully-runaway fill valve.

You lost me on this, but I think you mean like where the tube used to be on the plastic part where the flapper is...

I agonized over this decision for a while before getting this one. I'm not a plumber, just a home owner. At the big box stores they suggested Kohler and a plumber I use suggested Kohler or Delta. I looked at reviews and a lot people don't think the Kohler cimarron really flushes that well. Plus first thing I do is go and look through the parts Aisle and see whats available and I didn't really see replacement Kohler flush towers either maybe I missed it. There probably was a replacement seal there. Yea replacing parts was my first worry, but they do have some listed on the home depot website. It might have been smarter to get the Delta prelude model which uses the normal fill value connection and I think standard fill valve, but it did not look as nice as this model which was only ~$20 more. My plumber suggested that these Delta's seem built better than their cost ~$160 for the Prelude and ~$189 for the Corrente because they are trying to break into the market.
I know on here Toto is the toilet of choice, but they are not sold at any big box store here in Georgia and I've been in a few plumping supply stores and never seen them. Maybe I should look harder because I've read here that they are made here. The unit I replaced was an old Gerber and this is my first 1.28 unit. I replaced another several years ago in the kids bathroom with a cheap $50 Pegasus which was my best flushing unit and I've had no problems, but I hate it because it is a round unit. So the plan is two replace the other 2 units with something else eventually.

[jadnashua]

Toto does have a factory in Georgia, and while not all the toilets they sell in the USA are made there, they do make a bunch of them there. I'm sure if you looked around and checked www.totousa.com website, you'd find someone that sells them. Note that the street selling price is often MUCH lower than the suggested retail price. Most any supply house can order them, if they don't have them. To sell in a big box store, you have to generally give them a really good price. Toto, and some other manufacturers, prefer not to compromise quality by giving that low price...something has to go when that happens. When you're essentially selling all you make, why offer to sell them cheaper at a big box store?

[Whitlow]

I'll check on prices for Toto on replacing my downstairs unit. From looking at the pages here it seems the best/suggested Toto's are the Drake II and Ultra Max II ???
I fill like I would have the same issue with finding parts for these as well...just saying I might not be able to run to my local big box to get parts and have to order from plumbing supply house.
For the kids bathroom with is small and cramped, I was thinking of a cadet 3 saver elongated (I know AS has quality issues) that fits in the space of a round toilet only ~29.25 inches.

I thought it would be interesting to post about the Delta because it does have some new design ideas I've not seen before. Here is a link to a video that shows them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKIjQjXvZ3U

[jadnashua]

Most of the Toto toilets, and the ones you mention fall into that group, use readily available Korky repair parts available at most any hardware store, any plumbing supply, and Lowes (HD does not stock Korky brand that I've seen).

Those you mention are nice toilets. Most any of the Totos work quite well, most of the time it's a function of what style and how much do you want to pay. Those are very nice...I put a couple of Drakes in my mother's house, and she's very happy. I have an older Vespin and Carlyle that have served me well.

[stephenk]

I've looked at these Delta toilets at HD. If memory serves, they're made in China. I would guess they're just produced by another company and licensed by Delta.

I hope it works well for you, but I personally wouldn't buy a Chinese toilet with weird proprietary parts in the tank. Finding replacements could be difficult/expensive/impossible in a few years.

It does have a 1000g map rating.

[wjcandee]

Whitlow, just noticed your comment about why you posted about this toilet. Absolutely!! It's always interesting to see what is out there. Delta is a respected name, and they seem to have an interesting marketing approach. Glad you shared your experience.

One of the big objections raised on here to brands like Glacier Bay and the Costco toilets is that finding parts is a pain and models change as fast as the next shipping container rolls in.

Upon further review, it appears that Delta has made every critical part to these toilets available at HD [Online Only], and the parts are not outrageously-priced (Fill Valve $24, Flapper $12). Knowing Delta, they likely have these parts available directly from the factory as well. At present, it looks like the flapper for both toilets and the special fill valve for the Corrente are out of stock online, but I assume that will change. The fill valve for the Prelude should be replaceable with the Korky 528MP and others. That said, it would truly suck if one's flapper failed and HD, the only retail source, continued to be out of stock online, as there likely will be no generic replacement made for this flapper, as it is a very odd size, unless Delta achieves truly-huge market penetration.

Delta's marketing plan to differentiate this toilet is flat-out "ease of installation, including ease of removal of old toilet". It's intended to be DIY-friendly. I assume that the reason they don't use tank-to-bowl bolts that penetrate the floor of the tank is based upon some research that shows that low-experience DIYs are challenged with leaks at the bolts and (as we see often on here) difficulty getting the tank seated properly.

I commend Delta for creating some very-well-produced, slick, thorough online videos regarding both removal of your old toilet and installation of your new one. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I agree with a number of their instructed installation steps, particularly (1) trying to stick the wax ring to the toilet rather than putting it on the floor, (2) putting a bead of silicone on the base before installing it, (3) using silicone instead of polyseamseal, (4) no mention of dry-fitting the toilet base first, and (5) using a wax ring with funnel. Of course, almost all of these are preferences derived from Terry's recommendations but the logic of Terry's way is really indisputable. I also don't recall anything in the video about ensuring proper flange height to go with the standard-thickness wax ring they give you.

Given the price point, and the fact that they include everything in the box, including the equipment to remove the old toilet, a pair of gloves, a sponge to remove the water in the old toilet, etc, I would be curious as to how it's built and how it performs.

Whitlow, the overflow riser is the hard plastic tube that rises from the flush valve to about 1/2" above the expected water level in the toilet. It is designed to bypass the flapper. It has two purposes: First, if the fill valve fails and keeps running, the tank won't overflow onto the floor; rather the water will run down the overflow riser, past the flapper, and through the bowl to the drain. Second, it receives the water from the refill tube off the fill valve and refills the bowl water spot while the tank is refilling. Recently, it appears that more manufacturers are obstructing or narrowing the opening to this riser, which would appear to reduce its ability to carry off any overflow from a runaway valve.

[Whitlow]

Most of the Toto toilets, and the ones you mention fall into that group, use readily available Korky repair parts available at most any hardware store, any plumbing supply, and Lowes (HD does not stock Korky brand that I've seen).

Those you mention are nice toilets. Most any of the Totos work quite well, most of the time it's a function of what style and how much do you want to pay. Those are very nice...I put a couple of Drakes in my mother's house, and she's very happy. I have an older Vespin and Carlyle that have served me well.

They have the Korky parts at both my local Lowe's and Home Depot's.

[Whitlow]

Whitlow, just noticed your comment about why you posted about this toilet. Absolutely!! It's always interesting to see what is out there. Delta is a respected name, and they seem to have an interesting marketing approach. Glad you shared your experience.

One of the big objections raised on here to brands like Glacier Bay and the Costco toilets is that finding parts is a pain and models change as fast as the next shipping container rolls in.

Upon further review, it appears that Delta has made every critical part to these toilets available at HD, and the parts are not outrageously-priced. Knowing Delta, they likely have these parts available directly from the factory as well.

Delta's marketing plan to differentiate this toilet is flat-out "ease of installation, including ease of removal of old toilet". It's intended to be DIY-friendly. I assume that the reason they don't use tank-to-bowl bolts that penetrate the floor of the tank is based upon some research that shows that low-experience DIYs are challenged with leaks at the bolts and (as we see often on here) difficulty getting the tank seated properly.

Given the price point, and the fact that they include everything in the box, including the equipment to remove the old toilet, a pair of gloves, a sponge to remove the water in the old toilet, etc, I would be curious as to how it's built and how it performs.

Whitlow, the overflow riser is the hard plastic tube that rises from the flush valve to about 1/2" above the expected water level in the toilet. It is designed to bypass the flapper. It has two purposes: First, if the fill valve fails and keeps running, the tank won't overflow onto the floor; rather the water will run down the overflow riser, past the flapper, and through the bowl to the drain. Second, it receives the water from the refill tube off the fill valve and refills the bowl water spot while the tank is refilling. Recently, it appears that more manufacturers are obstructing or narrowing the opening to this riser, which would appear to reduce its ability to carry off any overflow from a runaway valve.

Yea I looked at closer and it is open at the top there is gap there just below where the filler tube connects. It's hard to see in the picture and I actually had to check it with my hard to tell.

Yea the Delta Prelude maybe a better choice if your worried about replacing this filler/float system because it appears to just use a standard one. I just thought the Corrente looks nicer and yea it did come with a kit (sponge, small blanket, plastic scrapper...) and I didn't have to buy a supply line saving about $10.

I think the only thing where they missed is with the seat. They tried making a good seat on this one that was easy off mechanism, but it is too wobbly moving too much. I'd been happy to pay another $10-$20 for a better slow close seat.

Oh by the way it seems to flush well too, but lets see how it does over time.

[wjcandee]

I appreciate the explanation about the overflow riser.

I agree that this one looks nicer; between the two, I would have chosen this one as well.

I think that as long as HD continues to carry all the parts, you shouldn't have any problems finding a replacement, and if this doesn't work out for Delta, I suspect that because they are a quality company they would continue to stock them for the forseeable future. And in ten years, if they don't have the fill valve anymore, then one could just buy a new toilet. Which is what one probably would have to do since most generic fill valves assume that there is a hole in the bottom of the tank on which to mount.

[wjcandee]

Whitlow, regarding choice of future toilets for the kid's room, the original Toto Drake CST744E (1.28 gpf) (or CST744S for the 1.6gpf version), of which we have two, is a great workhorse toilet that is reasonably-priced for the quality, available for a little north of $200 from many plumbing supply places. You do have to either use your existing seat or buy a new one, and you need to get your own wax ring, neither of which I object to because I may need a thicker ring, I prefer the one without the plastic spigot unless I'm stacking them, etc., etc., and a seat is usually a personal choice as to comfort.

The reason I recommend the Drake for that application is that it's only 28 inches back to front for the toilet with the elongated bowl (the model number I gave you). Installed on an exactly 12" rough-in, it has 1-1/8" behind the tank, for a total of 29-1/8" installed. (This also means that if your rough-in is a little less than 12", the toilet will fit fine.) And, as I am sure somebody mentioned, on the Drake, the Drake II, the Ultramax, etc., the same Korky replacement flapper (Korky 3060) can be used on all of them (and another, slightly-cheaper Korky flapper can also be used on the original Drake). Likewise, the Korky 528MP ("MaxPerformance") fill valve (searchable online at Lowe's model number 528MPK) is what Terry recommends for use on all of them, and it's about $10.50. (Korky makes most of the flappers and many of the fill valves that come from the factory in your Toto toilet, all right in Wisconsin, USA.) The genius is that one $11 part replaces all of the 3" flappers, and one $10 part replaces all of the fill valves, and these parts are available at Lowe's or your local hardware store. [This is not true, by the way, for the Drake 1G -- the 1 gallon per flush version -- which uses a flapperless flush system and thus is a one-off from the commonality of the rest of the Toto gravity-flush line.]

[wjcandee]

One other little nugget about the Corrente is that the regular model can't be used in various Illinois counties [Cook (including Chicago), Lake, Kane, DuPage, and Will County] or in New York City. In those locations, you have to get the alternative model that features a rigid water supply connector to run up into the toilet and over to the fill valve.

The reason for this is that, as designed, the Corrente doesn't technically meet Code. Apparently, Delta set about getting waivers from the plumbing authorities in various states, but didn't get it in parts of Illinois and in NYC. The issue is apparently, that the integrated fixture water supply, which is a braided stainless hose, doesn't meet the general Code requirement for length, dimension and temperature/pressure rating. Wisconsin, for example, gave it a waiver provided it isn't used with hot water and only for purposes of this particular fixture. See, e.g., http://dsps.wi.gov/sb/docs/sb-ppalopp/20120374.pdf I guess the other method of production is more expensive because the only place you can get the rigid-connector version (or have it shipped) is specific zip codes (e.g. Cook County and NYC).

Interesting that Delta's marketing folks came up with a solution (eliminate the china penetration for a traditional fill valve) that "solves" a virtually-nonexistent problem (the extremely-remote circumstance in which a properly-installed fill valve develops a leak around its gasket), but in doing so induced a potential problem (rupture of braided supply line) of unknown probability of occurrence (and one that I guess New York and Chicago weren't willing to risk). Of course, the net benefit to Delta of "solving" this "problem" is that you are absolutely-stuck with being able to use only their fill valve, as no other US-available brand is designed to work in this circumstance.

[jimbo]

If you look at the Delta website, they have a model Corrente model number ends in "RS" for ridgid supply. Internally there is a rigid tube which runs from the fill valve down thru the riser and terminates at the base of the tank in a standard 7/8" male ballcock fitting, to accept a standard water supply tube, either a flex, or apparently in some areas the mandated rigid supply tube.