10 inch toilet in 12 inch rough in - tank brace suggestions?

[zsuguru]

Installed a new toilet (AS Cadet 3 from HD...and yes I had to take it back twice due to defects) that is a 10 inch rough-in into a 12 inch roughed in space. This was done b/c the wife didn't want a ADS/right height/tall toilet and the only short ones HD had were 10 inch rough-in. Everything seems to work fine but there is a pretty big gap between the tank and the wall, maybe 5 inches or so.

I'm curious if it would be a smart idea to brace the tank to keep it from leaning back should someone (like the cats) bump it just to keep it from moving?

Also, in the other bathroom (for a 13 year old kid) would it be wise to do the same there? That toilet is a 12 inch rough-in toilet in a 12 inch roughed in space so the gap is only an inch or two.

[wjcandee]

Installed a new toilet (AS Cadet 3 from HD...and yes I had to take it back twice due to defects) that is a 10 inch rough-in into a 12 inch roughed in space. This was done b/c the wife didn't want a ADS/right height/tall toilet and the only short ones HD had were 10 inch rough-in. Everything seems to work fine but there is a pretty big gap between the tank and the wall, maybe 5 inches or so.

I'm curious if it would be a smart idea to brace the tank to keep it from leaning back should someone (like the cats) bump it just to keep it from moving?

Also, in the other bathroom (for a 13 year old kid) would it be wise to do the same there? That toilet is a 12 inch rough-in toilet in a 12 inch roughed in space so the gap is only an inch or two.

Not to be harsh about it, but perhaps for around the same money from your local plumbing supply if you shop around you can find a Toto Drake CST744S (1.6gpf) or CST744E (1.28 gpf), both of which would be on a 12" rough-in at the regular height. And of course they are high-quality and perform magnificently. Five inches from the wall is pretty unsightly, and adding bracing isn't going to make it prettier. All toilets are going to have gaps behind the tank of some size, so it really doesn't seem to matter whether it's 2" or 5", the tank shouldn't be rocking or require bracing in either case. Bracing, of course, only keeps the tank from moving in one direction (towards the wall), not the other (away from the wall), so it seems like getting the tank installed nice and firmly is really your best bet.

I'm a little suprised that you have 2" behind the one that's on the 12" rough-in. Even the Drake, which has one of the bigger gaps, leaves only about an inch behind the tank to the wall on a 12" rough-in.

Good luck!!

[zsuguru]

Don't worry about being harsh. Wisdom can often be harsh as it comes from learned (painful at times) experience. I appreciate your honesty!

I get ya - I'm not a fan of HD or L but they're "available." The plumbing supply cos around my house sell AS and some other brands...I forget which but NOT toto. The nearest Toto dealer is 30 miles away! I'll have to ask next time I'm in one of those places why they don't sell Toto. I know most of the plumbing companies around here use Kohlers (idk why, but that's what they say they use).

I just measured the rough-in (again) and the wall is actually really crooked. 12" inches on the one bolt and then 12.5" on the second. Both toilets share the same wall back2back. Nothing is straight in this house I swear!

[Gary Swart]

I would bet you that most, if not all, of the local plumbing stores could order a Toto for you. But, is 30 miles a huge deal? Remember, a toilet is a purchase that you will live with for years to come, so an extra few minutes drive won't seem too important as time passes. FWIW, I made a 300 mile round trip over a mountain pass to get my first Toto, lucked out on the second because Terry Love was coming within 35 miles of my home and I picked it up there. It may not be the wall that is not square, it could be the flange was not set straight. At any rate, you have a 12" rough in.

[hj]

The most common scenario is that a supplier has a "common" regular height 12" toilet, but NOT a 10" one. NO ONE puts a brace behind the tank for any reason. If it is going to break, it will do so unless the tank is tight to the wall, and it happens so seldom that it is not even a consideration when we install ANY toilet. The mechanics of the tank to bowl connection is such that any force that would crack it would probably damage it even with a brace.

[Gary Swart]

If you are bound to stay with the AS toilet, then you will just have to live with the space. If you want a toilet that will properly fit on a 10" rough-in, then you should look at the Toto toilets that use the Unifit adapter. Toto is the only company that makes an adapter to fit a toilet on 10", 12", or 14" rough-in flanges, but they will only work on specific models. Besides fitting the space properly, these are first rate toilets in both appearance and performance. These can be ordered by a plumbing shop or purchased online. Online has some risks in breakage although if the toilet arrives broken and you inspect it before accepting delivery, the shipper will replace it. That's a hassle of course, but I think the shippers are doing a better job now that they did in the past to better pack methods to cut down on this problem. As I stated in an earlier response, a toilet is a purchase that should last for many years so a bit of extra time and effort now will payoff many times over in the next 30 year or more.

[wptski]

I used a 10" rough in because measuring to the wall with the old toilet install was less than 12". The dimensions for a 12" didn't leave much room for error so I played safe.

[wjcandee]

I used a 10" rough in because measuring to the wall with the old toilet install was less than 12". The dimensions for a 12" didn't leave much room for error so I played safe.

That's certainly a safe strategy. What might be helpful to know is that the original Toto Drake can fit on 11" from wall to center of flange, no problem (assuming that the wall is truly vertical; i.e. that you measure to where the back of the tank will or would touch the wall).

[wptski]

That's certainly a safe strategy. What might be helpful to know is that the original Toto Drake can fit on 11" from wall to center of flange, no problem (assuming that the wall is truly vertical; i.e. that you measure to where the back of the tank will or would touch the wall).

I had never heard of Toto till I found this forum which was after my purchase.

[jadnashua]

I had never heard of Toto till I found this forum which was after my purchase.

You're not alone, but Toto's worldwide production makes most of the US based toilet companies look like corner stores. They've built up over the years by providing a quality product and word of mouth. Next time you wander through an airport, you'll find more and more of them are switching to Toto fixtures because they work. Actually building them in the USA is also a factor when buy American comes into play in a contract, but there are some other US made toilets, so that's not a slam dunk. Most of the US based companies outsourced their production over the last decade or so to foreigners. A few still make selected models here to satisfy government contracts, but the vast majority of them are made elsewhere.

[wjcandee]

You're not alone, but Toto's worldwide production makes most of the US based toilet companies look like corner stores. They've built up over the years by providing a quality product and word of mouth. Next time you wander through an airport, you'll find more and more of them are switching to Toto fixtures because they work.

If you haven't seen the attached article from two years ago, Jim, I just saw it and found it very interesting. Main points, made by Toto USA's VP of Operations: (1) Toto's "best advocate is the plumber. The plumber finds that when he puts our toilet into Mrs. Johnson's house, he doesn't have to go back." [exactly what Terry says]; (2) They converted the entirety of Hartsfield (Atlanta) Airport, replacing about 800 toilets and 1000 urinals with Toto products [the article doesn't mention it, but Hartsfield is also a place that they get a chance to show off their fancy commercial electric flush valves as well, because they are all Toto]; (3) They decided to walk the walk about sustainability, crushing all the old toilets and urinals from Atlanta Airport and sending them to LaFarge for use as aggregate for road construction, and they do that with all their rejects as well; previously this all would have gone to a dump; (4) they have made major capital investments to become a major sustainable organization (investments that only pay off long-term): they use 4 million gallons of recycled water per month, and 1 million gallons of greywater, they refine the remaining clay-mud slurry and truck it to a ceramic floor company in Tennessee, they even tell the employees to bring in their recyclables to work and Toto takes care of recycling them. More details in the article, like how they reuse kiln heat in the winter. Heck of a company.

Here's the link: http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/pure...porcelain/5110

[wptski]

You're not alone, but Toto's worldwide production makes most of the US based toilet companies look like corner stores. They've built up over the years by providing a quality product and word of mouth. Next time you wander through an airport, you'll find more and more of them are switching to Toto fixtures because they work. Actually building them in the USA is also a factor when buy American comes into play in a contract, but there are some other US made toilets, so that's not a slam dunk. Most of the US based companies outsourced their production over the last decade or so to foreigners. A few still make selected models here to satisfy government contracts, but the vast majority of them are made elsewhere.

My local plumbing supply house has a showroom also. I never noticed that right on the front window along with the other brands is the word Toto! Never been in the showroom as I head for the parts desk.

[jadnashua]

The sad part is that Toto can make toilets in the USA that can compete anywhere in the world, but most US manufacturers (not all) have outsourced their production out of the country. And, their quality control and design is top notch. Next time you're in a showroom where multiple brands/models are shown, see how many of them try to turn the waste at a right angle right at the outlet to the flange...guess what, that slows things down, and longer, harder ones don't make it through at all. Toto's design has nice curves, and the outlet is smoothly turned to point at the toilet flange so it all keeps going.

[Gary Swart]

Toto is the largest manufacturer of toilets in the entire world. As such, they manufacture toilets in several countries including the United States. One thing is consistent regardless of the country of manufacture. They all meet the highest standards of quality. As I understand it, the first thing they look at when selecting a site to set up a factory, is the quality of the clay. The clay must have a certain moisture content so the toilets won't sag in the kiln. Another point about Toto quality is the fact that they do not market factory seconds or blems. I'm sure they have some toilets that do not pass the final inspection, but these never see the light of day. This can not be said about some other brands, who dump these seconds on the discount stores at a very cheap price.

[wptski]

Toto is the largest manufacturer of toilets in the entire world. As such, they manufacture toilets in several countries including the United States. One thing is consistent regardless of the country of manufacture. They all meet the highest standards of quality. As I understand it, the first thing they look at when selecting a site to set up a factory, is the quality of the clay. The clay must have a certain moisture content so the toilets won't sag in the kiln. Another point about Toto quality is the fact that they do not market factory seconds or blems. I'm sure they have some toilets that do not pass the final inspection, but these never see the light of day. This can not be said about some other brands, who dump these seconds on the discount stores at a very cheap price.

Can you actually prove what your saying about dumping the seconds on discount stores?