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Thread: Well pump replacement - no water

  1. #16
    DIY Senior Member craigpump's Avatar
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    You're going on three days without water? My wife & kids would have moved out by now!

    Although I have installed a bunch of constant pressure systems and I'm not a big fan of them. I like a large tank and a conventional pump, however I would like to try a CSV if for nothing more than to satisfy my curiosity about how well they work.

    I know nothing about Red Lion pumps, what I do know is that like everything else in life you get what you pay for so spend a bit more money and get a better pump. Goulds has as good a warranty as you can get, too bad they don't use Franklin motors anymore.

  2. #17
    DIY Junior Member DYIWeller's Avatar
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    what pumps have worked for all you?

    I really appreciate all your comments, and assistance, it making realize I'm not ready to tackle this yet.
    Last edited by DYIWeller; 02-28-2013 at 09:49 AM.

  3. #18
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    IMHO Franklin today is not the same Franklin of yesterday. I think a lot of pump manufacturers are riding on the Franklin reputation.

    I replaced my Goulds pump with a Grundfos after the wet end wore out. What I looked for was less plastic and more steel in the pump. I am happier with the Grundfos than the Goulds as far as how well it pumps. Mind you the Goulds ate a lot of sand early on so it may not be a fair comparison.

    I don't recall you mentioning whether the pump is hung on steel pipe. That will make a difference in how heavy it will be to lift out. Given that the static level is at 15 feet, it will make it much lighter to lift. Two strong men might be able to lift it by hand. Have you even tried lifting it a foot to see how heavy it is?

    As for constant pressure, forget about the VFD pumps and go with the CSV. And for sure fix the waterlogged tank!! It sounds like neglect got you in this mess.

    For craigpump who said to sleeve the pump, you overlooked the fact that the OP has but a 4 inch casing so, A) the sleeve won't fit, and B) no sleeve is needed provided the pump is in the casing and not top fed in a rock bore.

  4. #19
    DIY Senior Member craigpump's Avatar
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    He indicated the pump is on sch 80.

    Yep forgot about the 4" sleeved well.

    Unfortunately the new Grundfos motors are not as reliable as the Franklin units. I installed tons of Grundfos with the Franklin motors years ago and very rarely had any issues.

    Three weeks? I would have to visit my wife at the local Holiday Inn!!!

  5. #20
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigpump View Post
    He indicated the pump is on sch 80.
    Ja, but one can get galvanized steel pipe in sched 80.

    I got a 5 year warranty on my Grundfos so another 3 1/2 years left on it. Time will tell how long it lasts.

  6. #21
    DIY Junior Member DYIWeller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLigetfa View Post
    IMHO Franklin today is not the same Franklin of yesterday. I think a lot of pump manufacturers are riding on the Franklin reputation.
    I don't understand, new management or lighter product?
    Last edited by DYIWeller; 02-28-2013 at 09:50 AM.

  7. #22
    DIY Senior Member craigpump's Avatar
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    As for the comment about sch 80 steel pipe, yep I know, I use 2" sch 80 to hydrofrac wells, but never have seen a domestic pump hung on the stuff. But there is always a first time I suppose...........

    Don't kid yourself about the weight. It will be heavy and a pain to handle, plan on two guys to do the job. As for handling the sch 80, I made a simple tool that I use when I can't get my truck or an up z dazy to the well. I will get a pic of it tomorrow and maybe you can get another idea from it. If you know how to weld it will easy to fab something up.

    You don't really need an extra check valve on the pump, but a lot of guys around here do it.

    You don't want to do this job again anytime soon, so use the best equipment you can afford. I would only use a Well X Trol tank, but you should check on the warranty particulars for do it your selfers.

    I see more Grundfos and CentriPro motor failures than I do with Franklins.

  8. #23
    DIY Senior Member craigpump's Avatar
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    I took a 6" coupling and machined it to drop over 6" casing. It has a socket on the side to hold a 1" piece of steel pipe 16' long which has a hoop at the top to contain the drop pipe. You can probably do the same thing for your 4" casing.

  9. #24
    DIY Junior Member DYIWeller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigpump View Post
    I took a 6" coupling and machined it to drop over 6" casing. It has a socket on the side to hold a 1" piece of steel pipe 16' long which has a hoop at the top to contain the drop pipe. You can probably do the same thing for your 4" casing.
    This fab tool set; it hold a section of drop pipe as its getting pulled up, and this Fab tool set, is used for the disassembly of a section of pipe from leaning over and for support?
    Last edited by DYIWeller; 01-20-2013 at 10:53 AM.

  10. #25
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    You will also need grips to hold the pipe as you unthread the sections. There are lots of different designs like this from deanbennett.



    What I use is a simple wood block clamp.


  11. #26
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    I have some scrap metal and pipe available, and metal tools and welder.
    To hold pipe; will be fabbing a pipe clamp holder with a couple of wood block. I have a variety of clamps to play with here.
    Last edited by DYIWeller; 01-20-2013 at 01:27 PM.

  12. #27
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    I have pulled 1” and 1 ¼” sch 80 PVC by hand without taking any of the joints apart many times. You just have to be careful to not bend it much at the couplings, especially if it has plastic couplings. Even with metal couplings the weak point is the threaded parts on both sides of each coupling. Just don’t bend it much at the couplings and the rest of it is very flexible. It will also be very buoyant with a 10’ static, and won’t weigh as much as you might think. But pulling a 3.5” pump up in a 4” pipe full of water is hard if you try to go too fast. It is like pulling a paddle through water, or more like pulling a plunger in a huge syringe, just don’t try to pull too fast.

    You will need about three strong people. Back a pickup truck up to the well and have one person in the back of the truck. Disconnect the pipe at the top of the well, loosen the well seal, and attach a strap. Everybody grab the strap and pull the pipe up. The person in the back of the truck takes the pipe over the cab, and by the time it hits the ground, another person picks it up and pulls it 200’ straight across the yard. Don’t try to cut the wire loose or anything. Just drag the whole pipe string out in one long piece, (of course you must have the room to do this). One person pulling up at the well, one pulling it over the cab of the pick up, (keeping it from bending as much as possible), and the other dragging the well seal across the yard.

    With a 10’ static it is not the weight as much as the pipe is wet and slippery. I have some rubber gloves with little bumps on them that grab very well to slick pipe.

    With everything laid out in the yard, you can cut the wire ties, splice, and unscrew the pump. Then put the new stuff back in by reversing the process. Just make sure everything is taped and finished before you start back down, because you don’t want to stop for anything. Even have the strap attached to the well seal so you can set the well seal down gently. It is the sudden stops of being dropped a few inches that will break the pipe, so let it down gently.

    It is not an easy job and if you break or drop something you can easily lose a finger or get hurt in other ways. Also if you drop it, it may cost more to get someone to fish it out than all of this is worth. You could also not be able to fish it out and lose the well itself. This is why when possible it is worth calling a professional for the larger jobs. However, this is a DYI forum and it can be done this way if needed. Just be careful.

  13. #28
    DIY Senior Member craigpump's Avatar
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    Yeah, you have to be careful pulling sch 80 in one continuous piece, it can/will snap at the joint if it is cold out. Like Valveman said, you can get hurt big time or possibly lose the well. Then what?

    I got a call tonight from a guy who dropped 520' of sch 80, with a pump & wire into a 560' well. Looks like a fishing job tomorrow morning.

  14. #29
    DIY Junior Member DYIWeller's Avatar
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    Safety First, will be first on my replacing the well pump list.
    Its been really cold with lows in the single digits, and highs in the 30's and 40's, with ice and snow on the ground. Weather started to warm up the last few days.
    Last edited by DYIWeller; 02-28-2013 at 09:51 AM.

  15. #30
    DIY Junior Member DYIWeller's Avatar
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    Default Frost line topic

    Dug out water line at well head, water line was measured at 32 inches From pitless adapter To ground level.
    The pitless adapter is the clamp around the 4.5" PVC pipe type. There's roughly, about 16 inches of exposed well pipe now.
    What your recommendation: add more fill dirt material?
    or lower the pitiless adapter and water line? How much?
    Question: What FROST LINE DEPTH for the north region, do you set the pitless adapter and the water line at?
    Last edited by DYIWeller; 02-28-2013 at 09:52 AM.

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