Dead Culligan Estate 2 - How to remove & what's next?

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Gary Slusser

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I wish everyone would set aside the contentiousness. This is a great site but I don't know why there is always this low level bitterness going on. I for one appreciate everyones input, and its even better when it helps me :) Anyways:
There have been a few here that simply love to disagree with most things I say. It's been going on for years. I'd hope you can get through it.

1) I think what lifespeed was saying is that the brine draw time is affected by the brine fill volume. More brine volume will result in a longer brine draw time. In my case, I'm stuck with the 0.5g/min BLFC, which also comes into play during the brine draw cycle.
In a way you're right that the brine draw will take longer with a higher salt dose (volume of brine refill) but it won't go for more than 10-20 minutes in the vast majority of residential softeners. The length of the time for the combination slow rinse/brine draw is set in the control valve and the air check, as part of the brine pickup/float in the salt tank (on most if not all common Autotrol valves) controls stops the brine draw part of the slow rinse/brine draw cycle position while the slow rinse continues. And that has little to nothing to do with the "efficiency" of a water softener unless yer anal about things.

2) I don't see any fractions in what dittohead proposed. I did the math (for my own information)and came up with fractions, they are what they are.
Most fractions are rounded up to the next whole number.

I did a regen last night (first time for this install) using the new settings and everything seemed to work. :cool: Thanks everyone for the help so far!
That needless regeneration did nothing but use up salt, time and water that didn't have to be used. Well, it did remove any air that was trapped in the resin tank if the dealer's installation instructions didn't have you put the valve in Backwash before turning the water on etc. after installation. And it showed you the control valve stepped from one cycle position to another without leaking I guess. It also added some water to the salt tank if the instructions didn't have you do that specifically and if so, it usually is not enough for a regeneration's salt dose because there is always a 1/2" to a couple inches of brine water left in the tank when the air check shuts off the brine draw.

I see you bought an H5 test kit. Do you think your hardness is different than the hardness you used to size and buy the softener for?

lifespeed.... the brine draw is controlled by the air check, not the slow rinse/brine draw cycle position time. The air check is set mechanically and usually permanently in many softeners so it is not adjustable in most cases. Cheap quality float controlled air checks can be adjusted mechanically. Usually Fleck valves have a permanent air check height as part of the brine pick up tube and that tube is cut off to the correct height for the salt tank being used. Usually a 1/2" to 2" off the bottom unless the dealer uses a salt grid and then adjusts it to allow an inch of water over the grid at the end of brine refill cycle position (which depends on the type of grid if that is necessary). And again, none of that has to do with efficiency unless yer into a very small amount of water efficiency.
 

Lifespeed

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Air check valve cuts off brine flow when all the brine is use. Brine draw timer stops slow rinse.

Fact remains that BLFC controls the rate that brine washes over the bed.
 

Gary Slusser

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The fact remains that slow rinse and brine draw are combined in the same cycle position, they are not separate, and after the air check shuts off the brine draw, the slow rinse continues until the control valve moves to the next cycle position. And then, to make sure all the brine is rinsed out of the resin bed and to compact the bed for Service, there is a fast rinse flow controlled by the DLFC. That is usually run for 5-15 minutes for the majority of residential softeners.

You think if the brine were left in the bed longer it would somehow make the softener, or brining, more efficient. Tell us how it would do that and why it would be needed when millions of softeners, many of them with very high efficiency based on their water and salt use haven't needed to do it.
 

Lifespeed

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LOL. They choose an appropriate brine rate by installing the corresponding BLFC button.

Done here . . .
 

Hiperco

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On a lighter note, here is a picture of my install. Fleck 90 degree adapter, pex 3/4 swivel adapters, pex piping & fittings, topped off with sharkbites :cool:
 

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ditttohead

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FYI, the brine draw is not controlled by the BLFC in any way. Most softeners have a directional flow controller in the brine system that only affects refill. The flow control moves out of the way during brine draw. The brine draw is controlled by the injector size and water pressure. All of the Fleck valves operate this way. Even the huge commercial valves with timed or float refill use a simple directional flow control.
 

Lifespeed

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Thanks for the info!

Edit: guess it was just a coincidence brine fill and brine draw were the same duration on my 7000.
 
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Mikey

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Glad you like it. Yes I did the pex myself (why, does it look like it, lol)
No, I was planning on doing a major reconfiguration of my system in PEX, but don't have tools, etc., and wondered how dificult & expensive it was. Mine is all 1" though.
 

Hiperco

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Pex is great and easy (assuming you can get your crimp tool into every spot you need to) but you do need to invest in the tools. My crimp tool does half and three quarter which covers everything in my house.
 

ditttohead

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