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Thread: Centaur Carbon Filter ?'s

  1. #16
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    I haven't heard anyone but you mention solids build up in solution feeder tanks so I'm not sure why you keep mentioning it. Raising an injection pump's pickup tube a few inches off the bottom of the solution tank allows the stronger solution on the bottom to not be used and to weaken over time. I think that would lead to your solids build up problem.
    Last edited by Terry; 12-10-2012 at 03:10 PM.
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  2. #17
    DIY Junior Member JohnF10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    Why would you chose Hydrogen peroxide over Chlorine?
    Chlorine is corrosive and I thought hydrogen peroxide would be less so. From what I have read about hydrogen peroxide I get a good feeling about using it over chlorine. Whether that is a sane thing I do not know. I will check out the dultmeier pump to see what that one is like.

  3. #18
    DIY Junior Member JohnF10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    Not everyone has to use any acid to clean the center tube and if he had to, white vinegar works and he can soak it for weeks if needed because he gets two center tubes, one to be used and a spare to be cleaned between having to add new pellets. That's usually 2-3 months and depends on how much water is used. Once a month or when he adds pellets he opens a ball valve on the bottom of the mixing tank and flushes any dirt out of the mixing tank until it runs clean. That drain he'd connect a piece of a garden hose to and run the water to a floor drain or wherever he had to. He could leave the hose connected and simply coil it up.

    You're welcome.
    How often on average does the feeder vessel need to be removed and cleaned out? Is it usually once a year? Can my dad leave his home for a couple of weeks or a month without having to remove the pellets from this system? Cleaning the tubes with vinegar is something that he probably wouldn't mind doing and flushing the mixing/retention tank is something he will have to do no matter which of these systems we decide on.

  4. #19
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
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    Another consideration in chosing between injection and a pellet feeder is the continuing cost of operation. Chlorine from pellets costs about 10 times as much as from household bleach--$150 per year compared to $15.

    If you are willing to accept the issues with chlorine introduced prior to the pressure tank then with injection it can be done with out purchasing a large solution tank and diluting the chlorine solution because household bleach is 5-6% solution as sold and this can be used with a properly sized Stenner adjustable injection pump for direct injection. Using a smaller container and undiluted bleach solution for injection virtually eliminates problems with solution stratification and changes in solution strength--but at the cost of more frequent solution refill.
    Last edited by Bob999; 12-11-2012 at 11:06 AM. Reason: To remove incorrect information

  5. #20
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnF10 View Post
    Chlorine is corrosive and I thought hydrogen peroxide would be less so. From what I have read about hydrogen peroxide I get a good feeling about using it over chlorine. Whether that is a sane thing I do not know. I will check out the dultmeier pump to see what that one is like.
    Both chlorine and hydrogen peroxide are strong oxidizers.

    The really significant difference in water treatment is that the products of oxidation with hydrogen peroxide are benign while chlorine can produce some nasty compounds.

  6. #21
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob999 View Post
    With a pellet feeder chlorine injection is done prior to the pressure tank
    Both versions of the one I mentioned are installed after the pressure tank and should have a check valve between them and the pressure tank.

    John, Not everyone has to use any acid to clean the center tube and if he had to, white vinegar works and he can soak it for weeks if needed because he gets two center tubes, one to be used and a spare to be cleaned between having to add new pellets. That's usually 2-3 months and depends on how much water is used. Once a month or when he adds pellets he opens a ball valve on the bottom of the mixing tank and flushes any dirt out of the mixing tank until it runs clean. That drain he'd connect a piece of a garden hose to and run the water to a floor drain or wherever he had to. He could leave the hose connected and simply coil it up.

    Additionally, I see that my previous reply to dittohead has been edited by Terry. Actually a paragraph was deleted, I guess because I had links to dittohead's web sites. And I say guess because dittohead sent me a PM a few hours before my post was edited. The PM subject line was something like... Immediately remove my web sites from your post" and then he repeated it in the body of the PM.

    The part that was deleted from my post/reply was saying to dittohead that on his company's two web sites, BTW, one is in Taiwan, there was no mention of his company selling any type of chlorination systems, or solution tanks or solution feeder pumps. I mentioned that because he said in the post I was replying to that he had sold many of the type chlorinators I mentioned and called them cheap etc..

    He has posted a link here to an article he wrote for an industry magazine that contains his name and his company name and that he'd give that info to anyone that PMed him. He's also posted links to videos that have his name on one or more of them. So I'm a bit surprised that he complained to Terry etc. about the links and then my reply was edited but, possibly Terry didn't know that.

    Dittohead has been here since about last Jan and we have 'discussed' the pellet chlorinator I suggested a number of times here but... IIRC, he has never before now mentioned selling it or its knock off, let alone hundreds of them.

    I also mentioned that the Taiwan site has some far out health claims for certain media being sold in inline cartridge filters with talk about infrared rays and their health benefits. Among others there is one with magnetic softening media. The US company site has a nice brochure about them. Anyone can email or PM me for the links.
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  7. #22
    DIY Junior Member JohnF10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob999 View Post
    Both chlorine and hydrogen peroxide are strong oxidizers.

    The really significant difference in water treatment is that the products of oxidation with hydrogen peroxide are benign while chlorine can produce some nasty compounds.
    And this is one reason why I am favoring peroxide injection. If the peroxide injection turns out to be more trouble then I expect I can always convert over to a chlorine system whether it is a pellet model or liquid injection type. It seems like all of these systems have their pluses and minuses, but there is one thing that always comes up in my research is that when set up correctly they all work well to get rid of the iron in the water. I believe it is more akin to someone who likes a car to get to the grocery store and another person who favors an suv, neither are wrong and they both will get to the store. :-)

  8. #23
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    The question is about the use of hydrogen peroxide, GAC tank size, capacity and flow, not about marketing claims for the Chinese Market or companies in Taiwan, lets try to keep on subject and not troll. Regarding hydrogen peroxide, what dilution do you plan on using? 7% has been the most common for water treatment. I have used both 35% and 50%, but dont attempt it. It is very dangerous to work with at those levels and not worth the hassle or the special handling. As I remeber, it is DOT hazzardous so shipping would also be a problem. 3% is probably to weak and might get annoying having to constantly add it to the system. Your idea of being able to switch to chlorine is valid, you may try it both ways. Either way is fine, Chlorine is usually preferred for very minor reasons, but if you are more comfortable with Hydrogen peroxide then definitely go for it. Let us know how it works out for you.

  9. #24
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    The question is about the use of hydrogen peroxide, GAC tank size, capacity and flow, not about marketing claims for the Chinese Market or companies in Taiwan, lets try to keep on subject and not troll.
    This is on topic as a reply to your post quoted above.

    Since you don't call anyone here but me a troll you must be speaking to me or about me. I see that as more of your name calling that Terry mentioned yesterday.

    Your California company's web site says you sell the Taiwan web site products worldwide and shows a map of the various worldwide locations you use to do that. And there is no info about not selling certain products at all those locations or limiting a product to "the Chinese market" as you are now claiming .

    So here you are misrepresenting yourself and other things again. Your California web site also says that you have many of your products manufactured in a new plant in China that was built to your specifications.

    Anyone wanting to see for themselves can email or PM me.

    JohnF10... chlorine producing "nasty compounds" (trihalomethanes - THMs) in private well water is rare to nonexistent but GAC removes or reduces THMs. That happens with chlorination in surface water systems with certain organics in it but some people in the water treatment business that don't like chlorine seem to not know that or more likely, play on peoples' fears or comments against chlorine.

    Peroxide is not known to cause harmful by products but it is much more dangerous to use and store while being more expensive and harder to find than chlorine bleach, or pellets. And with a solution feeder, your Dad will be handling it or bleach much more frequently than every 2-3 months with the pellet chlorinator I mentioned.
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  10. #25
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    Peroxide is not known to cause harmful by products but it is much more dangerous to use and store while being more expensive and harder to find than chlorine bleach, or pellets.
    Hydrogen peroxide is commercially available in 7% solution and that is the common solution used in residential water treatment.

    I am not aware of any evidence to support the claim that 7% hydrogen peroxide is "much more dangerous to use and store" than commercially available household bleach (5-6% solution) or 73% chlorine pellets used in pellet feeders.

    While it is true that hydrogen peroxide is more expensive than household bleach I believe that the cost of hydrogen peroxide is comparable to chlorine when generated by a pellet feeder.
    Last edited by Bob999; 12-12-2012 at 07:17 AM. Reason: add information

  11. #26
    DIY Junior Member JohnF10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    The question is about the use of hydrogen peroxide, GAC tank size, capacity and flow, not about marketing claims for the Chinese Market or companies in Taiwan, lets try to keep on subject and not troll. Regarding hydrogen peroxide, what dilution do you plan on using? 7% has been the most common for water treatment. I have used both 35% and 50%, but dont attempt it. It is very dangerous to work with at those levels and not worth the hassle or the special handling. As I remeber, it is DOT hazzardous so shipping would also be a problem. 3% is probably to weak and might get annoying having to constantly add it to the system. Your idea of being able to switch to chlorine is valid, you may try it both ways. Either way is fine, Chlorine is usually preferred for very minor reasons, but if you are more comfortable with Hydrogen peroxide then definitely go for it. Let us know how it works out for you.
    I plan on using 7% hydrogen peroxide for the safety reasons you stated. I will definitely let you know how the system works or not. I sure appreciate everyone's help here!

  12. #27
    DIY Junior Member JohnF10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    This is on topic as a reply to your post quoted above.

    Since you don't call anyone here but me a troll you must be speaking to me or about me. I see that as more of your name calling that Terry mentioned yesterday.

    Your California company's web site says you sell the Taiwan web site products worldwide and shows a map of the various worldwide locations you use to do that. And there is no info about not selling certain products at all those locations or limiting a product to "the Chinese market" as you are now claiming .

    So here you are misrepresenting yourself and other things again. Your California web site also says that you have many of your products manufactured in a new plant in China that was built to your specifications.

    Anyone wanting to see for themselves can email or PM me.

    JohnF10... chlorine producing "nasty compounds" (trihalomethanes - THMs) in private well water is rare to nonexistent but GAC removes or reduces THMs. That happens with chlorination in surface water systems with certain organics in it but some people in the water treatment business that don't like chlorine seem to not know that or more likely, play on peoples' fears or comments against chlorine.

    Peroxide is not known to cause harmful by products but it is much more dangerous to use and store while being more expensive and harder to find than chlorine bleach, or pellets. And with a solution feeder, your Dad will be handling it or bleach much more frequently than every 2-3 months with the pellet chlorinator I mentioned.
    This is part of the reason that I came to this forum and that was to find out honest information from people who have used/installed the systems and don't have a vested interest in selling me a product. I have to take all of your experiences and come up with a plan that should work for me and my dad. I do like the idea of only having to add the chlorine pellets every 2-3 months and not having to figure out a dosage, but don't think adding some peroxide or bleach to to the solution tank will be too difficult for my father to do on a regular basis. At the same time he can keep an eye on the carbon filter Clack valve and check for any leaks or other problems.

    It sounds like hydrogen peroxide doesn't add any "harmful byproducts" to the water that must be filtered out by the carbon filter so it would appear to be a safer way to go. I do not believe that the cost of the peroxide will be prohibitive at the injection ratios it will be used at to get rid of the 4ppm of iron. That is if my math is correct.

  13. #28
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnF10 View Post
    This is part of the reason that I came to this forum and that was to find out honest information from people who have used/installed the systems and don't have a vested interest in selling me a product. I have to take all of your experiences and come up with a plan that should work for me and my dad. I do like the idea of only having to add the chlorine pellets every 2-3 months and not having to figure out a dosage, but don't think adding some peroxide or bleach to to the solution tank will be too difficult for my father to do on a regular basis. At the same time he can keep an eye on the carbon filter Clack valve and check for any leaks or other problems.

    It sounds like hydrogen peroxide doesn't add any "harmful byproducts" to the water that must be filtered out by the carbon filter so it would appear to be a safer way to go. I do not believe that the cost of the peroxide will be prohibitive at the injection ratios it will be used at to get rid of the 4ppm of iron. That is if my math is correct.
    What the guys that propose solution feeders rarely if ever mention about them is the problems and what has to be done to correct them IF you don't get the dose right.

    Possibly your Dad will not appreciate having to do the troubleshooting and applying the corrections if he has problems keeping the dose correct. You may not like having to help him from a distance or on site either.

    Possibly Dittohead and Bob999 will tell you a bit about that but I wouldn't bet on it, they mostly want to disagree with me on most everything and whine (Bob999 has been banned from here before with a different name or two).

    What size retention tank are you going to use? What size solution tank?

    If your Dad doesn't get all the iron oxidized he then has to adjust the volume of the chlorine dose and if that doesn't get'r done, then the strength of the solution.

    Now that isn't hard to do but... testing for free chlorine residual is because the water in the retention tank hasn't been replaced with the new dose and until it is all test results are invalid because the new dose is being diluted in the retention tank.

    Way back in the beginning of my 'career' in water treatment I sold a few and serviced many solution feeders that were used for iron, H2S and/or Coliform bacteria control. Not long after I started I quit selling them because of the constant babysitting and customers getting upset. Many did not want to play with the doseage other than turning the pump up to inject more solution. And those that did got upset over having to mix solution more frequently and usually that didn't solve the problem anyway. So maybe Dad should read this and you get his input before buying anything.

    I asked what size tanks because if the dose is off and can't be corrected with a small adjustment here'r there, you dump the retention tank water and start over. And you may be doing that with the solution tank too.

    For 4 ppm of iron I suggest you are going to need at least a 120 gal retention tank. Or the bottom drain mixing/retention tank I suggested that is equivalent to that size tank. BTW, the larger the solution tank the more the solution can weaken before the solution is used.

    Now if Dad had hard water and needed a softener, I'd say to size it correctly for this iron and the hardness and use SST-60 resin and a Turbulator distributor tube and get rid of the iron that way.

    Dad would only have to keep some salt in the salt tank and mix a solution of 1/4 to 1/3 cup of Iron Out in a gallon or two of water and pour it into the water in the salt tank once every month to 6 weeks and do a manual regeneration and be done fooling with his iron problem. He'd save bunch of bucks and gobs of floor space and reduce frustrations and maintenance to next to none.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
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    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  14. #29
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    I'm just a guy that has sold, installed and serviced filtration equipment for almost 40 years now. I like to keep things simple. If I were selling you equipment it would be a stenner pump and liquid chlorene. Not that I have anything against pellets, it's just easier to get bleach in liquid form. Maintenance is not a big deal with either system. Just something that has to be done occasionally. dosing isn't a problem either. You have to remember that these systems all require maintenance and they all need to be checked occasionally. I NEVER treat iron with a softener and I've explaind the why's a hundred times here before so no need to go over that agian but, it is certainly an option for you if YOU or your dad will maintain the system. If not, you will have problems. Oh, peroxide is good, works fine, can be hard to find, doesn't have that bleach smell LOL
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  15. #30
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
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    I want to second the comments of Tom Sawyer.

    ALL WATER TREATMENT EQUIPMENT REQUIRES REGULAR TENDING AND MAINTENANCE.

    In my opinion both pellet feeders and injection systems require comparable amounts of maintence and tending--not identical as to what must be done but the amount of time and effort is very comparable.

    Both hydrogen peroxide and chlorine are effective in treating iron. There are advantages and disadvantages of each.

    My personal opinion is that JohnF10 seems to have enough information at this point to make an informed decision about what best suits his circumstances and preferences--but if he doesn't he seems perfectly capable of asking for more information (or opinions) if that is what he wants.

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