What’s your opinion of the build quality of this Mansfield Summit 3? -PICS-

[Terry]

The Summit 3 is an offshoot of the Maverick and owes its utility to the flattery it gives the Drake employing the 3" flapper and the 2-1/8" glazed trapway.

The pictures posted here don't look "anything" like the Maverick trapway. The Maverick would be a much better choice then the Summit.


Summit bowl

The Maverick bowl has a trapway similar to the Drake, but not the Summit.

Below is the Maverick bowl which uses the low dip in the trapway to create more siphon, and points the waste down the drain at the last bend.

These two bowls are totally different.

[wjcandee]

But since the Maverick's street price is actually equal to or higher than the price of a Drake that it copied, why would anybody buy a Maverick?

It looks like they used a drawing of the Maverick on the Summit box, whereas, like I said in an earlier post, it doesn't look like the thing IN the box looks anything like what's drawn on the outside of the box.

To the original poster: I am here to tell you that the Drake, CST744S, if you get it in the $225-ish range, is going to seem to you to be a much, much better toilet than the one you bought, and well worth the extra money. I can say this without knowing anything about you other than that you really seem to analyze and pay attention to things. A person with that characteristic alone is likely to appreciate the Drake even more than the guy who just puts it in and is pleased with the flush.

[stephenk]

Well, you've all won. If the trap design on the Summit 3 was the same as it's shown on the box and on their website, I'd keep it and install it. That's actually one of the things that made me choose this model. The schematic on the website showed it having a similar trapway design to some of the popular Toto toilets. I was surprised when I opened the box that it wasn't the same as pictured. I'll probably box it back up and return it.

I wanted to like this toilet because it's made in the USA, and buying USA made products and employing US workers is very important to me. I know Toto also makes toilets in the US, but as far as I can tell the Drake and Eco Drake (my two top choices) come from various different countries, so it will be a crap shoot as to whether I'd get USA made, Vietnam, Mexico, China, etc.

But since the Maverick's street price is actually equal to or higher than the price of a Drake that it copied, why would anybody buy a Maverick?

The local big box store I bought this Summit from has a maverick on display for $139, which is cheaper than a Drake, at least from the research I've done. That's just one example of a street price, though. But, the Maverick isn't on my list at the moment, I just took a look at it when I was in the store.

[wjcandee]

Are you sure that's not just the Maverick bowl? I've seen where they sell the bowl separately, and you use whatever spec Mansfield tank (i.e. 3" flush valve) fits on it. Could be wrong, though.

Shop around and don't be afraid to hondle about the price. There's a lot of flexibility and variation in price, as your research should show.

If you do want the USA version, and you visit or contact a stocking plumbing supply, ask them if they have any of those USA-made tanks and bowls. They can take the five minutes to look. If not, don't worry if the tank and bowl come from different places; mine did and fit perfectly (e.g. USA-made tank, Thailand bowl, or whatever).

[stephenk]

Are you sure that's not just the Maverick bowl? I've seen where they sell the bowl separately, and you use whatever spec Mansfield tank (i.e. 3" flush valve) fits on it. Could be wrong, though.

That price was for a complete toilet. I looked at it up close, as it was set up on display. But, I'm probably not interested in that model. I just looked at it while I was there.

[Gary Swart]

Why didn't you get their $99 Toilet-In-A-Box? You seem to be shopping for cheap instead of quality.

[stephenk]

Why didn't you get their $99 Toilet-In-A-Box? You seem to be shopping for cheap instead of quality.

If you look a couple posts up you'll see my other two top choices are a Drake and Eco Drake. I think you may have misread some of the posts in this thread.

As I said, I wanted to try this Summit because it was USA made, but you all have convinced me to return it. I'm not looking for cheap, as the Summit actually wasn't that cheap. As you point out, I could have bought a $99 special and I didn't.

[wjcandee]

SK: I think the other cult members will stop heckling you now that you have officially pledged allegiance and come Into The Fold. Having once been the victim of Good Marketing Of Bad Toilets, I can follow your logic. "Hey, on the box this looks like the same trapway as the other more expensive toilet, and it's made in the US!" Totally logical. Like my logic in buying a beautiful-but-horrible Kohler that matched the beautiful bathroom sink we installed. I subsequently hit it with a sledge and installed a Drake, but it took years because I figured if Kohler couldn't make a good 1.6gpf toilet, nobody could. The boys here set me straight.

We do have your best interests at heart. It's just a little Tough Love. I appreciate your dignified responses.

And I know you will love your purchase. Let us know the unvarnished truth of what you think. It's always helpful.

[stephenk]

Thanks for the kind words. I assumed people here would be interested in seeing close-up pics and sharing their opinion on models they may not have seen first hand, but the responses have been harsher than I expected.

I'm leaning towards the Eco Drake, as my girlfriend likes the idea of saving a little more water.

I guess the next step will be choosing a retailer. I don't know if I would get in trouble for posting links to online sellers, but there are several I've been looking at. I'll have to call the plumbing shops in nearby towns and see what they want for them, too.

[Terry]

I assumed people here would be interested in seeing close up pics and sharing their opinion on models they may not have seen first hand

I liked the pictures. I was surprised to see the bowl being different then the pictures on the box.
When I worked for a large plumbing company, we installed a lot of Norris and Mansfield. It wasn't until I discovered something better that I thought much about it. It was what everybody installed. I found plenty of plumbers that had been installing the brand for 30 years, mainly out of habit.
Thanks for the pictures!