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Thread: Sewer Pipe Options

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member Daltex's Avatar
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    Default Sewer Pipe Options

    I'm replacing a cracked, root infested section of my main sewer line. Total length to be replaced is about 50'. The pipe leads another 100' to the septic system. Original pipe is 4" clay. Part to be replaced is 10' inside slab on grade foundation making a trench the entire length a mind bender. Can you give me the pro's and con's of the different alternatives. I am in east TX and my options are limited. Trench entire length/ pull a pipe though/ epoxy coat the existing pipe. The pipe has been viewed via camera and there are 2 connections at far end and one close to the other end. Thanks.

  2. #2
    DIY Senior Member Mikebarone's Avatar
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    Maybe if your tile pipe is large enough to get maybe a 3” ABS pipe to sleeve inside of the existing pipe. You may have to get a root grinder in the existing pipe, to make room for the 3” pipe. I don’t know if a 3” drain line would be big enough to handle your house, or mabe you know have a 3" pipe. They do make, (but it might be pricey) a sewer grinder, where a 4” sewer line comes into it, and after grinding it, it can be pushed through a 1-1/2” pipe; even up hill.

  3. #3
    DIY Junior Member Daltex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikebarone View Post
    Maybe if your tile pipe is large enough to get maybe a 3” ABS pipe to sleeve inside of the existing pipe. You may have to get a root grinder in the existing pipe, to make room for the 3” pipe. I don’t know if a 3” drain line would be big enough to handle your house, or mabe you know have a 3" pipe. They do make, (but it might be pricey) a sewer grinder, where a 4” sewer line comes into it, and after grinding it, it can be pushed through a 1-1/2” pipe; even up hill.
    Thanks for the reply Mike. The pipe replacement method I was referring to was pipe bursting where they pull a cable with a bit on the leading end to bust the old pipe then behind that is a similar or even larger pipe pulled though the dirt. It has to have the connectors exposed for reconnection along with a pit at the start and end of the run.

    Just didn't know the pros and cons of this vs. epoxy lining vs. just a long trench.

  4. #4
    I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP) Lakee911's Avatar
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    Slip lining, epoxy lining, cure in place piping, whatever you call it, is typically going to be the least invasive if the pipe is in good structural shape. This can typically be done from one end only. There was TOH episiode on it actually. It does reduce the size of the pipe but it decreases the coeffecient of friction so the flow can move faster. Sometimes it even increases the amount of flow that the pipe can handle.

    Open trench will be cheaper, but depending on site conditions restoring grass, sidewalks and flowerbeds (after months of letting it sette) could be expensive too. I would bet that complete site restoration of a typical site + the cost of open trench is comparable to the other method, but I don't know.

    Generally the most expensive part is the ditch digging which you could do yourself. Make sure you support the trench at the sides if the soil is not stable. You don't want to enter the ditch and have a side sluff off on top of you or your plumber.

    I'd like to slip line my current pipe, but I know it has an offset joint so it's not a good candidate.

    Jason

  5. #5
    Plumber patrick88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakee911 View Post
    Slip lining, epoxy lining, cure in place piping, whatever you call it, is typically going to be the least invasive if the pipe is in good structural shape. This can typically be done from one end only. There was TOH episiode on it actually. It does reduce the size of the pipe but it decreases the coeffecient of friction so the flow can move faster. Sometimes it even increases the amount of flow that the pipe can handle.

    Open trench will be cheaper, but depending on site conditions restoring grass, sidewalks and flowerbeds (after months of letting it sette) could be expensive too. I would bet that complete site restoration of a typical site + the cost of open trench is comparable to the other method, but I don't know.

    Generally the most expensive part is the ditch digging which you could do yourself. Make sure you support the trench at the sides if the soil is not stable. You don't want to enter the ditch and have a side sluff off on top of you or your plumber.

    I'd like to slip line my current pipe, but I know it has an offset joint so it's not a good candidate.

    Jason
    They can pipe line just about anything. Unless your offset is really messed up they should be able to line it. They just add a little extra for the angles. I have relined a few drains and it is rather simple once you know how to do it.
    I'm just starting to work with an old friend of mine to bring solar electric and hot water systems, wind turbines, Flex Fuel Boilers, batteries, hydroponic gardening, books, pellet grills and more. Also the parts for DIY installation.

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    DIY Junior Member PleaseHelp's Avatar
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    Default Simple Sewer Pipe question

    I just moved into a new top floor condo and my inspector noticed the sewer pipe from the kitchen was broken off in the attic - was probably done when they put a new roof on on condos a few years ago. My inspector said it could be fixed by putting a special cap on it and no need to fix the pipe and extend through the roof, but a roofer said that it should be extended and did not know what my inspector was talking about. Obviously to fix "properly" and extend through the roof would be very costly for the HOA. Which option do you suggest? Is there a special cap option? Here is a picture of the issue, I can definitly smell the gases through out the attic.



    Regards,

    PleaseHelp
    Last edited by Terry; 11-19-2012 at 05:14 PM.

  7. #7
    Junior Member plumb4fun's Avatar
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    no it should not get capped,you and all your neighbors need that vet .have the hoa call the roofing company that replaced the roof and fix it.

  8. #8
    Plumber Cass's Avatar
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    If that is just the kitchen vent you could install an AAV if they are approved for use in your state.

    My first option would be what plumb4fun said...contact the roofing company and have them fix it.

  9. #9
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Default vent

    The inspector was referring to an air admitance valve vent termination. If he was a city inspector and suggested it, then they are probably approved in your area. If it was a home inspector, he might have just been suggesting the easiest way. Through the roof creates the fewest plumbing problems.

  10. #10
    DIY Junior Member PleaseHelp's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Answers to Sewer Pipe Question

    Thank you all for the responses to my sewer pipe question. I am glad to hear my inspector knew what he was talking about, but it sounds like it should be fixed by venting out of the building. I really appreciate all the responses and over a weekend - that is awesome.

    Regards,
    PleaseHelp

  11. #11
    DIY Junior Member Daltex's Avatar
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    Default Follow-up $$$$$$

    The pipe bursting has begun.

    The whole 150' needed replacement. The main problem is root infestation where the 6" cast iron joins the clay which is under 50' of slab. The clay pipe has numerous offsets, fractures and bellies.

    What I learned about each approach for my situation:

    Lining the pipe sounded good but if an active root grew between the clay and the liner it could colapse the liner and I'm back to where I started. This does nothing to fix the bellied portions of the pipe. There are no companies around to do the lining so I'd be relying on a company over 2 hours away. Cost: 6 to 7 thousand over the phone and could go up after they arrive. This was before I new the whole clay pipe was bad so add the additional cost for the other 100' and ? But the main concern was no local support.

    Next quote was pipe bursting and the downside was the slab cutting mess for the pits (but they are using one of the pits to fix a washing machine stand pipe with no vent and 2 hard 90' elbows out of threaded galvanized burried in the slab) and it may only eliminate a portion of the bellies. The good part is the connectors will be attached by hand. Cost: 12k for the 150'.

    Thank goodness I got the last quote last- doing it the old fashioned way with a 150' trench. This would be the best as the connectors would be hand joined as was pipe bursting but the slope would be perfected as the pipe bursting could not do. Cost: 53k -I would have died if it was the 1st quote. He guestamated it was about 3X the size of a restraunt he just did at "around 24" so my cost would be less due to the restraunt being a night job. I was thrilled until the total enlightened me 24 was thousand not hundred. Also included redoing the kitchen sink instead of it rapping around the other side of the house. Later the kitchen sink part did give me a chuckle.

    Note that this is my cost due to the layout and access restrictions of my house. There are severe elevation changes of the slab and the whole area is an island of concrete.

  12. #12
    DIY Junior Member Daltex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PleaseHelp View Post
    I just moved into a new top floor condo and my inspector noticed the sewer pipe from the kitchen was broken off in the ...
    I had this one also. Two 4" and two 2" cast iron vents cut flush with deck in attic. One 4" in one part of house- Added an AAV. Tied the two 2" vents with the other 4" and AAV'd that also. Result= Stinky. Ran both out the roof and problem solved. Even with an AAV you capture the odors in the pipes. Any leak in the AAV or pipe joints and the concentrated odor is in your face. The AAV even says on the insert you need external venting as the AAV is for secondary ventilation only.

  13. #13
    DIY Junior Member ellahaskin's Avatar
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    Default I hate plumbing problems!

    Quote Originally Posted by PleaseHelp View Post
    I just moved into a new top floor condo and my inspector noticed the sewer pipe from the kitchen was broken off in the attic - was probably done when they put a new roof on on condos a few years ago. My inspector said it could be fixed by putting a special cap on it and no need to fix the pipe and extend through the roof, but a roofer said that it should be extended and did not know what my inspector was talking about. Obviously to fix "properly" and extend through the roof would be very costly for the HOA. Which option do you suggest? Is there a special cap option? Here is a picture of the issue, I can definitly smell the gases through out the attic.



    Regards,

    PleaseHelp
    Plumbing problems are the worst! I haven't had to buy a house yet, but we rent from my parents, so they're not exactly the best on keeping up with home maintenance and my husband and I have been killing ourselves trying to fix all of the problems we have been having. First the drain in our bath tub would take forever to drain the water after we showered and then our kitchen sink just refused to drain at all, which was super gross since we don't have a dishwasher and didn't have another way to do the dishes! Seriously, we used an entire bottle of drain-o trying to fix it and it still didn't help. We found out that we have roots growing in our yard that were going through the pipes and blocking them. Eventually we got our <a href="http://www.lavendersedm.com/en/sewer_and_water_line_replacement.html">sewer lines repaired</a>, but with all of the random plumbing problems we were having, if we hadn't called in a professional we never would have figured it out. Good luck with your new condo! I hope you can get it all fixed!

  14. #14
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Where are you located? At those prices, I would only have to do one job every couple of weeks. something is wrong, because you said you have 4" clay pipe, then are connecting to 6" cast iron. The "wrong part" of it is that you cannot connect a 6" pipe under the slab to a 4" sewer pipe. The bursting head will follow the old pipe "exactly" because it is the path of least resistance, so if you have bellies now, you will still have them.
    Last edited by hj; 11-20-2012 at 07:04 AM.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

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