Iridescent Particles in Ardex's 8+9 Waterproofing - A closer look

[Daler]

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I've had the chance to bit the lashing systems head to head. In the end the winning system was the Raymondi lashing system.

I checked out that system on Contractor's Direct. I think it may be too pricey for a one-off job as it seems to require their special crimping tool.

After a few jobs we have found that the time saved setting tile is lost in grout prep. In your wet zone you need 95% coverage and full coverage in the corners. This is not easy with any of the lashing systems.


With many of the builds we do we are often :Tweaking: the tile install a hair. The lashing systems work properly only when the substrate is perfectly flat. They are a pain in the ass if you check mortar coverage - Like you should and like outlined in the TTMAC and TCNA Specification guidelines.

JW

The mesh tape you ordered is not the same kind. Night and day different products.

so what did you used when you didn't have the SK? Howabout using alkalai-resistant drywall mesh for the 8+9? (I realize it is only 2" wide)

JW

[Daler]

It's a miracle. My wife is actually letting me take her Kitchen Aid hand mixer to work today. With her blessing (under protest and the promise to return in as is condition). I bought a new patch of Ardex 8+9 and will do a few small batch mixes today.

I also took a medium sized mixing bowl since these hand mixers are designed to work with them. I think it will make a better mix than a squared edge bottom of a standard bucket.

I'll start a few test boxes today and record the process here.

JW

alrighty now ..is that the small hand beater or the skookum desktop model?

[Daler]

The Lash system does raise the install about 3/16" the Ramondi under an 1/8". 1/16" grout joints are very hard to achieve and two small for most large format tile.

What is the curvature of the tile you bought?

What is the size of tile?

What type of layout are you using? Stacked, Running Bond etc...JW

We haven't committed to the 12x24 tile yet but it looks like it will be the common Rainfall White. We are thinking on running it horizontally (design lines across), stacked, and not radius'd. There will be a feature in the wall -- probably a continuation of the floor and up the center of the pony wall (pebbles).

Today, the local dealer demo'd the Lash system. I thought the base of the clip (being arched) would screw with the thickness of the mortar. He showed how it pulls up tight to the wedges and leaves only the thickness of the clip base under the tile (about 1/8"). I don't know how that translates into the actual install though by these hands

What blew me away was that he attached 4 tiles together using the Lash and lifted the whole works. This showed how locked in everything became. I'm just not strong enough to do that with a bunch of 12x24's though

[Daler]

When using large format tile, you generally want or need moderately deep layer of thinset...I don't think any of the straps would be that big of a deal. The only time you can use a very thin layer of thinset is with very flat tile on a very flat floor which rarely happens. The instructions I've seen have the straps maybe an inch or so from an edge, so clearing the thinset that might ooze up shouldn't be a huge deal.

..such as using a 1/2x1/2 trowel, or is that too large for 12x24's, Jim? I would guess those ruts would then be pretty deep. Coupled with back buttering, I would also think there shouldn't be a problem in working with any levellers ..and I would guess that with deep thinset some sort of levelling help would be needed to overcome the now-uneven buildup issue??

But I ain't the Expert ..just a novice who's just trying to gather all the facts and opinions ahead of job



..hey, this is a great discussion, it's really helpful!

[jadnashua]

The depth of the thinset all depends on how flat things are, as I said, both the tile and the floor. With a bigger tile, your first one can set the whole scheme for the entire floor - you want it flat, and a bubble level is useful for that. Then, depending on the floor, you use whatever depth of thinset you need to keep things all in one nice, flat plane with good coverage. There's a limit on how thick you can make thinset, and may need a medium bed mortar if things aren't too flat or there's variations in the floor, or the tile, like bows or cups, etc. Again, the goal is full coverage with the tiles all in one nice plane. One of the leveling systems can help get them in plane, but make sure the first one is level first!

[johnfrwhipple]

We haven't committed to the 12x24 tile yet but it looks like it will be the common Rainfall White. We are thinking on running it horizontally (design lines across), stacked, and not radius'd. There will be a feature in the wall -- probably a continuation of the floor and up the center of the pony wall (pebbles).

Today, the local dealer demo'd the Lash system. I thought the base of the clip (being arched) would screw with the thickness of the mortar. He showed how it pulls up tight to the wedges and leaves only the thickness of the clip base under the tile (about 1/8"). I don't know how that translates into the actual install though by these hands

What blew me away was that he attached 4 tiles together using the Lash and lifted the whole works. This showed how locked in everything became. I'm just not strong enough to do that with a bunch of 12x24's though

I'd avoid the lash system. I like their yellow wedges for tiling but a lot of force needs to apply to flatten out that arched foot.

As for thickness levels in thinset you will find that 12"x24" tile often require more than a 1/4" in thin set.

You can use a premium thin-set like the Ardex X32 and be able to take it up to 1" thick. This can be costly since the stuff about $55.00 per bag. I used 6 bags just setting my buddys floor.

$330.00 in thin-set sounds like a tone but you get a product that does not contribute to effloresence and a thin, medium and thick bed setting material.

I find the Ardex x32 really wears the buckets down - must be the heavier aggregate in the mix.

If you can believe it I left my wife's mixer at home and did not do my small load testing. Not back there till Monday. Had hope to share with you my findings this weekend.

JW

[Daler]

I'd avoid the lash system. I like their yellow wedges for tiling but a lot of force needs to apply to flatten out that arched foot.

As for thickness levels in thinset you will find that 12"x24" tile often require more than a 1/4" in thin set.

You can use a premium thin-set like the Ardex X32 and be able to take it up to 1" thick. This can be costly since the stuff about $55.00 per bag. I used 6 bags just setting my buddys floor.

$330.00 in thin-set sounds like a tone but you get a product that does not contribute to effloresence and a thin, medium and thick bed setting material.

I find the Ardex x32 really wears the buckets down - must be the heavier aggregate in the mix.

If you can believe it I left my wife's mixer at home and did not do my small load testing. Not back there till Monday. Had hope to share with you my findings this weekend.

JW

Yer the guy with the hands-on experience with those levellers, so I have to take that opinion into consideration -- thanks. I do want to end up with as little lippage as possible ..there will be a lot of sunshine on them from the skylight above. I'll look around for a local alternative and something that won't break the bank.

Well, with that x32 price you talked me out of it
I assume the bags of x5 I have around here will be ok for the Hardi fill, burn-in, and pebbles, but not good enough for the large format tiles? The supplier also has x77 on hand. What's your experience with it ..the Ardex site also yaks about that being the thinset of choice for LF tiles. Cheaper at ~$35 too.
And so the suggested size of trowel to go this job is...??

Your mixer experiment: no push at this end. I won't be attempting any Hardi filling and taping (let alone tiling) until we finish with drywalling ..and have settled in of our new family member. So probably in another week or so. As this is not a commercial job I gave up on any sort of strict timeline ..the beds are comfortable in the spare room