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Thread: How professional are these plumbing waste and vents?

  1. #16
    In the Trades Gary Swart's Avatar
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    I'm by no means an authority on this, but I would think the first place to go would be the county. If no help there, then I would consult an attorney who could get to the right agency for straight answers. This is not just a relatively minor case of a wrong fitting or two, it's really the whole job. In my opinion, you would be entitled for refund of the entire money paid plus compensation to remove the whole mess and to have it done right. There could be punitive damages as well.

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  3. #18
    DIY Junior Member joallen001's Avatar
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    I checked the link. I see there is a person listed as the code enforcement officer and I know him personally. Maybe I should contact him and go from there.

  4. #19
    DIY Junior Member joallen001's Avatar
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    I copy and pasted this from the link. It mentions 15 counties being exempt and Lawrence County is listed.

    Limited Licensed Plumber (LLP)
    This state LLP license is issued to individuals needing to perform work in areas where there is not a local codes enforcement office offering local licensing for permits and inspections. This license requires passing a 40 question exam (exam pre-approval is not required for the LLP) and only acceptable for projects LESS THAN $25,000. Many municipalities do not accept the LLP, including areas where local government performs their own licensing and those 15 exempt counties which are not regulated by this law (Benton, Decatur, Dickson, Giles, Henderson, Henry, Hickman, Humphreys, Lake, Lawrence, Lewis, Obion, Perry, Stewart and Weakley). In addition, if a person or contractor has a contractor’s license with a CMC or CMC-A classification, they are exempt from obtaining an additional license as a the LLP; but not exempt from local license or inspections. Plumbing Inspections for LLP's are in line with the new Residential Building Code Program with the Division of Fire Prevention for areas without codes offices. The LLP license requirement became effective on January 1, 2006.

  5. #20
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joallen001 View Post
    I copy and pasted this from the link. It mentions 15 counties being exempt and Lawrence County is listed.
    It may be that he doesn't need that license in your county, but I would check with the code enforcement guy anyway, particularly if you know him. The absence of a need for a license does not of itself eliminate the requirement that the work in any event be done to code. It unfathomable that plumbing in your county could be entirely-free of code requirements or inspection, but at a minimum I would call the county executive's office and find out. If it is unregulated, someone ought to raise hell, because you would then be living proof of the crap (and potentially-dangerous) plumbing being done in this unregulated environment. Is electrical also done without any reference to code? How can -- at a minimum -- insurance companies tolerate this -- it's a recipe for massive liability to them.

    As to the venting into the attic -- how could anyone be such a hack as to think that this would be acceptable or that sewer gas accumulating up there would be a good idea? Heck, why not just send the gas water heater exhaust up there, too? It's "clean burning", right? (I actually knew someone who had a famous tennis player die while staying in his guest/poolhouse, allegedly due to the defective installation of a propane pool heater by a non-plumber: they ran the exhaust pipe to just inside a louvered door rather than fully-outside, and the gas accumulated and was sucked through the HVAC system into the dwelling and killed the guy while he slept. Apparently, the pool company was warned by the manufacturer's rep that had inspected it when it wasn't heating that the unit wasn't installed properly for an indoor location, and this warning was ignored, so the mechanic and the company were arrested and charged with criminally-negligent homicide.)

    As to recourse, I don't know Tennessee law, but many jurisdictions impose on any person doing work of this nature (including what is essentially a design component) an implied warranty of suitability for a particular use; given that this installation just by looking at it can be predicted not to perform to the standard reasonably-expected for a single-family home, there is likely to be a legal theory that would give you a right of recovery. That alone should be enough leverage to get these hacks to fix the work to be code-compliant.
    Last edited by wjcandee; 10-26-2012 at 04:06 AM.

  6. #21
    DIY Junior Member joallen001's Avatar
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    I am going to try and touch base with code enforcement on Monday. I talked with the local plumbing supply house and they are not aware of any required inspections.
    As far as electricaly go it always gets inspected on a new home and a remodel. We started pulling wire yesterday. The first inspection is a rough-in inspection and then they come back for a final. I really appreciate the feedback you all have given. Does anyone think I should confront the plumbers first even let them read what is said here? Giving them a chance to make it right, or should I just go straight to code enforcement?

  7. #22
    Test, Don't Guess! cacher_chick's Avatar
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    I tend to believe that the "plumbers" you hired do not know how to do it correctly, so they just did it the way they know. It is possible that they don't understand the plumbing code and the reasoning behind it. Having no enforcement from the jurisdiction, they might have plumbed every job they have ever worked this same way, and thought whey were doing good.

  8. #23
    DIY Senior Member kreemoweet's Avatar
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    If those guys are actually just plain ignorant, then it would seem they must have, for their entire lives, actively avoided looking at any instructional material, talking
    with anyone knowedgeable of plumbing, reading any relevant instructions, asking any questions, etc., etc. That is extremely hard to believe. And if so, how in the
    world could they possibly call themselves plumbers in any non-fraudulent way? I think it far more likely they are just plain crooks.

  9. #24
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    How in the world could they possibly call themselves plumbers in any non-fraudulent way? I think it far more likely they are just plain crooks.
    I agree. That is the work hack job I have ever seen. Someone needs to pull their business license!
    If they don't want to learn how to plumb, they should go back to mowing lawns.

  10. #25
    DIY Senior Member bluebinky's Avatar
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    My house just outside Waxahachie, TX was built (1985) without any permits or inspections. As far as I can tell, they did a pretty good job of following the building codes. Certainly better than what is shown here!

  11. #26
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    quote; since they say they are the professional plumbers and you can vent into an attic.

    I had a customer call because they were getting sewer gas odors in the house. After extensive checking, I discovered that the roofers had cut one vent so it vented into the attic, because it would have come through the roof in a "bad place". The sewer gases were being carried down the walls and out of any openings, such as electrical outlets. Venting into an attic is NEVER an acceptable practice and NO competent plumber would do it. Even an AAV would be preferable to an open pipe in the attic.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

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