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Thread: Install Drake II questions on steps in write-up

  1. #16
    DIY Junior Member LordManDude's Avatar
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    Question

    I am having the same issue right now. Without the rubber ring, the tank sits perfectly on all three points. When I put the ring on, the gap between the tank and toilet bowl is about 3/4"

    When I snugged it down, I was able to get it within a hair, but honestly I was paranoid I was going to crack one or the other. Something seems off. I know we shouldn't have to be tightening these down this tight.

    See my pics:
    No ring.. it sits flush

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    Here's where the ring sits and the height it absorbs

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    What I assume is the ring, correctly attached to the fixture

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    This is the height of the tank, just sitting on the bowl. Is this really the height it's supposed to be?

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    piezomot, are your issues similar?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  2. #17
    DIY Member stephenk's Avatar
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    I just installed my Drake II yesterday. I've read this concern a bunch of times on this website, and of course I had it on my first Toto toilet. There are quite a few posts here where people claim the tank doesn't need to touch the bowl, but the manual is very clear that the tank does need to touch the bowl on the three contact points.

    I was in the same boat as you. I ended up using a small plastic shim on the back to fill the space, so it's now rock solid. I may try to re-set the tank, but at the moment I didn't have enough time to keep messing with it.

    EDIT - I had a little time today and took another crack at it. It took a couple tries, but I was able to get the tank to touch on all three points without really cranking down on the bolts. Repositioning the tank did it.
    Last edited by stephenk; 12-13-2012 at 07:06 PM.

  3. #18
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    We install hundreds of them, and we never shim the tank to bowl.
    And what can I say, we're like perfect!

  4. #19
    DIY Junior Member LordManDude's Avatar
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    Well, so far, all is good. I just went slow, and evenly tightened the nuts. It's flush now, and all three are touching, but I think just maybe there could be a little more room here from Toto.

    Terry, I read these posts before starting, and I thank you for all the quick replys to this community. I have been a car nut for years, and have spent hours and hours on car forums. When I looked at this toilet forum, there are over 1000 other people viewing this at the same time. Wow!!! Good thing you have going here.

  5. #20
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Good Job, Duke!

    I know it's a little unnerving the first time, but once you see how you can get it nice and tight and straight and solid, just by taking it easy, holding it vertical, and tightening slowly, you'll know how to do it for yourself and family and friends in the future!

    It's funny, some folks don't believe they can crack the porcelain and that we're just being paranoid (wrong), and some believe that something must be wrong with the product because they're afraid to tighten it a little more to get it right (also wrong). There sure is a little touch involved, but once you get it right, it's pretty easy to see how to do it right every time after that.

    And I have to say there's a real sense of accomplishment (at least for me) after a couple of efforts get it just right. I actually rehabbed a 1950s toilet a few months ago with the Korky complete kit, which includes a big thick rubber sponge gasket for the flush valve nut. It took a while to get it just right, but once I did, the thing was rock-solid. I was kind of proud because the professional who had installed it over 50 years ago had built a little plaster of paris base for the tank in order to produce the same no-wobble result, and mine was straighter, with no plaster or shims, just by doing it right. Felt good.
    Last edited by wjcandee; 12-11-2012 at 10:09 PM.

  6. #21
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    The magic here is you must tighten the nuts evenly, and only just until things touch (or a hair less). It also helps if you hold the tank straight while tightening so the gap to each point stays the same as much as possible - starting out crooked can be problematic. Porcelain has no spring, and if you try to go beyond touching, you can crack things. There's a very slight amount of give because of the rubber washer, but not much!

    Because I don't do it often, I'll use thick strips of paper between the contact points (say 24# copy paper), and stop when I start to feel friction when trying to pull it out. This means there's all of a few thousands of an inch clearance, and I've not gone too far.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  7. #22
    DIY Member piezomot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    The magic here is you must tighten the nuts evenly, and only just until things touch ...
    I would like to confirm that I still do have the same issue as it was described by me earlier and was described by LordManDude. If you follow this advice above and use this so called magic, then toilet would crack. This is a manufacturing defect. I am using small eraser to fill the gap.
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    In-spite of this problem I will buy the second Toto Drake II toilet for my second bathroom next year as this is the best toilet I ever had!

  8. #23
    DIY Member piezomot's Avatar
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    I just purchased and installed my second Toto Drake II. I have the same problem, but now I have to insert extra piece of rubber in all tree contact points to prevent tank from moving. Without the rubber ring, the tank sits perfectly on all three contact points. Name:  P4165330s.JPG
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    Last edited by piezomot; 04-16-2013 at 04:37 PM.

  9. #24
    DIY Member piezomot's Avatar
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    I started to investigate what is the root of the problem here. It looks like water tank is made in USA:Name:  P4165331s.JPG
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  10. #25
    DIY Member piezomot's Avatar
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    But the toilet is made in China! It looks like Chinese toilet C454CEFG#01 and USA ST454E#01 tank do not match very well...
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  11. #26
    Test, Don't Guess! cacher_chick's Avatar
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    When the tank "nub" will not touch in the back, it is because you started tightening with the tank leaning forward a bit. If you were to put a level across the top of the tank, I believe you will find it is not parallel to the bowl from front to back.

    The sealing washer is compressible. It is designed to compress when the bolts are tightened down. If the tank is not sitting parallel to the bowl when you start tightening, it pinches the seal more on one side than the other. The tank should be centered and level when you start tightening the bolts or it might never reach 3 points of contact before it breaks.

  12. #27
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    While it can be disconcerting...the tank can be tightened so it makes contact. Since porcelain is not elastic, you cannot overdo it or it will break. That's why I (since I don't do it often) like to use a sheet of thick paper underneath the contact points and stop when you can still just pull it out, leaving a few thousandths clearance. A half-turn each side until you get close is all I like to do, so that the tank essentially stays even. You can crack things if you tighten one side , then go to the other. Slow and easy and evenly is the key. Your solution will work, but should be unnecessary. Toto has some of the tightest manufacturing tolerances in the industry, and it should not make any difference where the parts come from.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  13. #28
    DIY Member piezomot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacher_chick View Post
    When the tank "nub" will not touch in the back, it is because you started tightening with the tank leaning forward a bit. If you were to put a level across the top of the tank, I believe you will find it is not parallel to the bowl from front to back.

    The sealing washer is compressible. It is designed to compress when the bolts are tightened down. If the tank is not sitting parallel to the bowl when you start tightening, it pinches the seal more on one side than the other. The tank should be centered and level when you start tightening the bolts or it might never reach 3 points of contact before it breaks.
    No this theory is not correct, I went to the local plumber shop dupontplumbing.com (not the one where I purchased my TOTO toilet) and examined TOTO Drake II toilet on display there- it has the same issue, it will rock. I spoke to shop owner named Frank and he told me that he did not noticed it and it is interesting observation...

    I think all of these Chinese units has smaller diameter of inlet hole for the toilet water tank flange. I do not care about it as there is no water leak and water tank would not rock now...But the toilet itself is great.

  14. #29
    Retired Machine Repairman wptski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    Toto has some of the tightest manufacturing tolerances in the industry, and it should not make any difference where the parts come from.
    That may be but unless I'm wrong, it's been stated here several times that Toto toilets are made in the USA. Labeling as having high US standards manufactured elsewhere is very common.
    Bill
    Retired Machine Repairman
    Just a DIY'r

  15. #30
    Test, Don't Guess! cacher_chick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wptski View Post
    That may be but unless I'm wrong, it's been stated here several times that Toto toilets are made in the USA. Labeling as having high US standards manufactured elsewhere is very common.
    SOME Toto stuff is made in the USA. Some are made both here and overseas.
    TOTO is not an American company, nor are all of it's components made here.

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