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Thread: Install Drake II questions on steps in write-up

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    DIY Junior Member azmikie's Avatar
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    Default Install Drake II questions on steps in write-up

    First off, I am no plumber, so sorry if these question are something assumed to be known information.
    1. In steps 8 and 9 it says to install the tank bolts when you install the tank to the bottom using only one nut per bolt. My assembly instructions tell me to install the bolts to the tank with a nut and the the tank to the bottom with a second nut. Can you clear this up for me?

    2 In the next post by Terry it says under the wax ring picture "Notice that the bag of bolts includes four nuts and four washers." My floor mounting kit only came with two bolts, two nuts, two plastic washers and two metal washers. What is the second set of nuts for in the one you have pictured?

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    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    These are actually good questions.

    First: single-nutting vs double-nutting the tank installation. The preferred way explained on this forum is the double-nut approach, and it's traditional. You take the rubber washer and slide it over the bolt. You insert the bolt into the tank. Only the bolt head and rubber washer are inside the tank. To ensure that this connection stays straight and firm, you put a metal washer and nut on the outside of the tank. This compresses the bolt head absolutely-vertically into the rubber washer, and seals the bolt hole in the tank. So, when you go to tighten the tank onto the bowl, you don't end up applying pressure more on one side of the washer than the other, or pulling the tank down any way but vertically. Now, you mount the tank onto the bowl, and use a rubber washer, metal washer, and the other nut underneath the bowl to do so. This is the way Toto recommends it. It's the way that Fluidmaster and Korky did their toilet rehab kits for years. Then, the manufacturers found out that lots of DIYs and some pros would just chuck the extra washers and nuts, using only one of each, because they don't read directions. Korky claims to have done lots of research and swears that there is no advantage to double-nutting, but admits that they saved some $$ by revising their kits to eliminate the extra set of hardware. Personally, I think you are better off long-term double-nutting. My own experience with a Korky kit was that the first go-round had the bolts at something of an angle to the bottom of the tank by the time I was done slowly tightening the tank down bit by bit to compress the tank-to-bowl gasket and get a firm connection between tank and bowl; it didn't leak around the bolts, but in a few years, it most likely would have. I detached the tank and started over. It took a whole lot of extra care to get that bolt-head/washer seal perfectly-vertical while tightening just the one nut from underneath the bowl, in part because the bolt was having to penetrate two holes but being held in place only by the tension applied from underneath the furthest hole. I love the folks at Korky but I disagree with their analysis, if for no other reason that it makes it harder to get it right the first time. At a minimum, double-nutting is chicken soup -- can't hurt. And Toto gives you the hardware you need to do it right. On the Jamie instructions, he doesn't really say not to do that; I think it's subsumed in the instructions about using the hardware.

    Second: Double-nutting the closet bolts. Most manufacturers don't tell you to do this. The way you see in the Toto instructions is to stand the closet bolts up in the flange, to the extent that they will stand, then mount the toilet on them, then on top of the toilet put the plastic base cap, washer and secure with the nut, cut the extra length of closet bolt with a Dremel or hacksaw, and install the cap on top. What many pros do (and Terry is one) is to use that extra nut and washer to secure the closet bolt to the flange first before mounting the toilet. Instead of just having it dangling there loosy-goosy trying to stand up in the flange, you position it where you want it and use the extra washer and nut to secure it to the flange before you put the toilet on top. That way, they stay standing up straight where you want them when you put the toilet on top. Some kit manufacturers now give you a little plastic sleevy thing to prop them up. The nut and washer work best, and for a first-timer, they actually cut the time, even though you have to take time to attach them.

    Bottom line, neither way is wrong, but the consensus on here (and Terry's way) is to double-nut both connections. As you can see, there is no downside to doing it this more cautious, thorough way, and logical reasons for doing so.
    Last edited by wjcandee; 10-15-2012 at 11:14 PM.

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    DIY Junior Member azmikie's Avatar
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    Thank you very much for the response.

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    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Happy to help!

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    When Jamie wrote those instructions, they only came with one nut and washer for each bolt. Several years ago, TOTO started sending two nuts and two washers for each tank to bowl bolt. It makes a much better connection.

    I had added this picture showing the extra nut and washer, but forgot to change the text.



    Snugging up the large nut

    Last edited by Terry; 10-29-2012 at 11:58 AM.

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    DIY Member piezomot's Avatar
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    Hello Terry, I was following this advice below and just installed Toto Drake II toilet today. I refer to this procedure - "...it is not necessary for the tank to touch the bowl on all sides, a little gap all the way around is fine... ".
    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...-by-Jamie-Love

    Only problem I have with it - water tank rocks, see my picture below.

    I installed tank bolts 3 properly, not to brake the ceramic, but the tank would rock forward and back each time I touch the handle to flush the toilet. This is because there are two gaps 1 and 2 between tank and bowl.

    I just placed elastic into gap 2 as a temporary fix, as I do not know if this Toto Drake II design problem or just my toilet has such defect.

    Name:  PA264599sm.jpg
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    Last edited by piezomot; 10-26-2012 at 07:43 PM.

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    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    The key is it has to be level. Mine just lightly touch all the way around, and they don't rock at all. Rock solid.

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    In the Trades Gary Swart's Avatar
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    It is not a design problem, and it's not likely to be a defect. When you tighten the nuts, you should alternate from one to another. Watch the space so you can keep the tank coming together with the bowl evenly. The three points on the tank and three on the bowl should either touch or have the space of a playing card between them. As WJ stated, the key is level. Mine also touches lightly on the three points. In your photo, it appears that the front was pulled way down and the back bolts were not tighten to keep pace with the front. Back off the front and bring the rear of the tank down so as to level it out. Then take like 3 or 4 turns on a nut then switch to another and do it 3 or 4, and continue this pattern until the tank reaches the points.

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    DIY Member piezomot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Swart View Post
    Mine also touches lightly on the three points. .
    It looks like two points are at the same level, but third one (at the back) is far lower then those. Sorry, I did not get it how yours tank would touch 3 points...

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    I would remove the water, loosen the bolts and try to re-center the tank. You should be able to pull it downward more evenly.

    Last edited by Terry; 09-04-2013 at 06:18 PM.

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    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Have a look at the Toto installation instructions. I'll give you a link if you need it. It shows how the thing is supposed to touch at 3 places. It's two places in the front (left and right) and one place in the back (so...front to back). It's a way of making sure the tank is level. What Terry says is of course the answer.

  12. #12
    DIY Member piezomot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjcandee View Post
    Have a look at the Toto installation instructions. I'll give you a link if you need it. It shows how the thing is supposed to touch at 3 places. It's two places in the front (left and right) and one place in the back (so...front to back). It's a way of making sure the tank is level. What Terry says is of course the answer.
    Thank you wjcandee, I have found it here - http://www.totousa.com/Portals/0/Pro..._TOILET_IM.pdf

    "NOTE: Three Points of Contact:
    The toilet bowl has three points of contact, which will actually contact the bottom of the toilet tank when properly installed. The location of these points can be seen on the bowl at the tank receiving area. The three points are front left (1), front right (2), and back center (3). Recall these three points during the Toilet Tank installation."


    I will try to re-install water tank today...
    Last edited by piezomot; 11-05-2012 at 10:46 AM.

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    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    My pleasure! Good luck!

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    DIY Member piezomot's Avatar
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    I am totally convinced that it is manufacturing defect. I removed tank completely and was trying to re-install it and water is leveled, you could see it from the picture below, but third point at the back still would not touch the tank.
    Name:  PB064602sm.JPG
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    DIY Member piezomot's Avatar
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    Here is another picture I made, you can see the water level better here. This back point as it could be seen on my first picture is lower then two front points!Name:  PB064603sm.JPG
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