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Thread: Toto Drake round bowl standard height (non ADA) rough in. less than 12" possible?

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    DIY Member jefferson17's Avatar
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    Default Toto Drake round bowl standard height (non ADA) rough in. less than 12" possible?

    I own 2 of these amazing toilets. We are moving the 2nd one from the now totally demo'd bathroom to a brand new one we are building. Clearly, we can do a 12" rough-in from the planned finished wall but I'd rather not have any more excess space behind the tank than necessary. It seems that "something" less than a full 12" rough is do-able. From what I've read on Toto's site, I can probably get away with 11 1/4", perhaps less?

    While still leaving a BIT behind the tank, say 1/4-1/2" what is the REAL bare minimum that the rough-in can be placed at?

    THANKS!

    Jeff

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    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Assuming that you don't have a really deep baseboard, allowing for some differences in molding (because the clay shrinks when fired; consistent clay is the key to consistent size), one can usually put the thing on 10-7/8. That would give you essentially no space between the toilet and the wall. If you're thinking 11-1/4, that will give you what you want: about 3/8" behind the toilet.

    Of course, since you demo'd the bathroom already, I assume you removed the toilet already. Just put it against the wall (or however far off the wall you think looks nice) and measure from the wall to the center of the holes for the closet bolts. Now you know for sure the measurements for your particular toilet.

    However, I'm not sure that you want to stick the next homeowner (or yourself) with an insufficient, non-standard rough-in. Eventually, that toilet is going to be replaced; indeed, someone could inadvertently break it, and you deprive yourself of the opportunity to put in, say, a Drake II, which requires significantly more room than the Drake. Relatively-few toilets are going to fit on 11-1/4", and who knows what will be available ten years from now. You are sticking yourself or the next homeowner with a potential bugaboo that will be expensive to repair/replace.

    Regardless, you've got a great toilet; we all love our Drakes.

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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    That is a really bad idea...

    If, for some reason down the road, you or whomever buys the house, wants to replace the toilet, you've limited their choices radically. Or, for some reason, that toilet gets broken and the model no longer exists, you'd be really peeved if you had to tear up the tile, maybe the floor, and maybe the ceiling below to move the flange. Just put it at 12", then anything you want, or the next owner wants, will fit without worries. You want less room behind? Buy a different toilet.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

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    DIY Member jefferson17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjcandee View Post
    Assuming that you don't have a really deep baseboard, allowing for some differences in molding (because the clay shrinks when fired; consistent clay is the key to consistent size), one can usually put the thing on 10-7/8. That would give you essentially no space between the toilet and the wall. If you're thinking 11-1/4, that will give you what you want: about 3/8" behind the toilet.

    Of course, since you demo'd the bathroom already, I assume you removed the toilet already. Just put it against the wall (or however far off the wall you think looks nice) and measure from the wall to the center of the holes for the closet bolts. Now you know for sure the measurements for your particular toilet.
    How simple it sounds once that is pointed out. "just measure the center of the holes for the closet bolts". Now it seems obvious but not at the time. THANKS!

    The baseboard won't be an issue - we are using 3/8 stone tile for our base, with a little smear of thinset, but that is certainly noteworthy.

    Thanks also to the folks for their other comments. If this toilet were to ever break I would but another Toto, Drake if available, and simply double-check which models would be able to accommodate a rough-in that is at least "REASONABLY LESS" than a full 12". It's reasonable to assume that Toto will continue to make one or more models that accommodate this requirement. We did the rough-in today and didn't go crazy - it's somewhere about 11 1/4 - 11 1/2.

    As I DO have full access from underneath the bathroom, I'm really not concerned about a very nebulous "what if" down the road. I will always be able to reposition to a 12" someday if I ever wanted - or whomever buys the house.

    Thanks all!

    Jeff

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    I would buy the toilet first, assemble it, place it in the bathroom and take the measurements.

    A wall that leans in or out or is perfectly vertical will determine somewhat how close you can have it.

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    DIY Member jefferson17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    I would buy the toilet first, assemble it, place it in the bathroom and take the measurements.

    A wall that leans in or out or is perfectly vertical will determine somewhat how close you can have it.
    Thanks, Terry. But I already own the toilet - 2 of the same. The wall will be built from scratch, perfectly verticle and sufficient distance from the rough in that is in place. We'll be set.

    J.

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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Personally, I think it's unreasonable to assume at some indistinct future time you'd find a decent selection of toilets that would meet your requirement. The standard is 12" in the USA...if you have that, you can be assured any 12" rough-in toilet will work. Even over the last few years, Toto models identified as Drakes have changed their physical size and clearance to the rear on a standard rough-in. There are LOTS of people here that complain about their non-standard rough-in, and then have to search for a toilet that will fit, or go to the expense to move the flange which can mean a big deal if you have tile. What you like in style today, may change over time - at 12", your choices are nearly unlimited...shorter than that, the potential list gets small pretty quickly.

    But, you've made up your mind...it will work for now. I prefer to think about the future. There's a reason for standards...
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

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