Can't get a good seal on a Rivers Edge Whitehall Lane toilet bowl

**Tadst34** · 09-30-2012, 02:14 PM

Hello all. I'm a DYI'er and new here.

I am having a heck of time trying to get my toilet to seal at the flange.

First issue, the closet flange sits about 1/2" below the finished floor.
Second, the collar on the toilet has two grooves where the "p trap" is, recessing upward toward the tank.
In other words, it is not completely flat where the wax ring sits.

Has anyone else had this problem with a toilet?

The original problem was that there was a small amount of water leaking from underneath the base. The baseboard(mdf) was swollen from water damage. It has been replaced.

I tried the following;
1. Two wax rings. Still leaked
2. Flowmaster wax free. Still leaked
3. Two 1/4" spacers with wax free. Still leaked
4. Two spacers and xl wax ring. Still leaked.

My next try is to fill the two grooves in the bottom of the toilet with some left over wax then use two wax rings along with the two spacers. What to you all think? I have examined the heck out of the toilet for cracks and cannot find one.

Maybe thinking for trying the fernco wax free, but don't think it will work because if the two grooves.

If none of this works I may just buy a new toilet and try that. I don't really want to since the toilet is only 4 years old. Plus I have three more of these toilets in the house. The other two rock and move. So I will be replacing those rings too. The toilet is called "rivers edge".

Any help would be great.

Thanks.

Tom

**wjcandee** · 09-30-2012, 02:50 PM

The pros will doubtless have a better insight than I, but my first reaction is that if your drainage pipe is clear and functioning properly, you shouldn't get enough water "leakage" from flushing into it to damage the baseboard over the relatively-short time period that you are talking about. Also, if you are using enough wax, if I understand your description correctly, I don't see why the wax wouldn't just compress into the ridges that you are talking about and provide a sufficient seal. Do you have any specific reason to believe that the leakage is coming through the seal between the toilet and the flange? Could it be coming out from somewhere under the flange (i.e. cracked drain pipe) or above (cracked toilet, as you mention)? Have you tried putting some dye in the bowl and seeing whether it propagates through a bowl crack anywhere?

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

PS Which rivers edge model do you have? There are photos at the manufacturer's web site which you can find with a search engine.

**Tadst34** · 09-30-2012, 03:12 PM

It is a Whitehall lane elongated toilet. I will try to take a pic of it later.

After each of my four attempts, I slide a piece of paper under the toilet flushed a few times and pulled it back out. It is all wet. I made sure the area was dry before set the toilet.
There is no damage to the cealing below the toilet so I think the drain pipe is ok.
I'm sure there is some small amount of damage to the subfloor, as well as the cement board. But I don't think it warrants me to rip the floor up.

I was cretain the two wax rings would have worked because I compressed about 1 1/2" of wax but it didn't.

I didn't try the dye. I will on my next attempt.

I put paper on both sides and in the front. The piece seems to get wet but not the sides. Maybe there is a hairline crack.

If I do get a new toilet I'm thinking the Toto Drake.

Really hope I don't need to shell out another $200 for a new toilet.

Thank you.

**Tadst34** · 09-30-2012, 03:15 PM

Is it okay to use food coloring as a dye test?

**Gary Swart** · 09-30-2012, 05:06 PM

Let state right up front, I'm not a plumber, so there are many things I am not familiar with. That said, I have never heard of a Whitehall Lane toilet and I have been on this forum for years. I suspect that may be part of your problem. Second thing, a half inch recess is a lot to compensate for. Not saying it can't be done, just a lot. If it was mine, I redo the flange and get it on top of the finished floor. Third. If your other toilets rock and roll, their seals are also broken, just not showing a leak. Any Toto would be a wise choice. The Drake is a favorite because it is less expensive than many of the other models and it work extremely well, but at least examine the other choices for their appearance and consider redoing the flange.

**wjcandee** · 09-30-2012, 05:19 PM

Yep. Food coloring is what a lot of the manufacturer's web sites recommend, in fact.

I see that you actually did try raising the flange with spacers and then an extra-large wax ring on top of that. I don't see how that could fail to compress the wax. But we'll see, I guess.

**Tadst34** · 09-30-2012, 05:33 PM

Yeah, I don't know what the heck is going on. I looked closer at my other rivers edge toilets and they rock, and one sits off of the floor in the back. It also shows sings of slight water damage on the baseboard. Seems the plumber may not have been consistent with setting the closet flanges.

I highly frustrated. This shouldn't be this hard.

**Tadst34** · 09-30-2012, 05:37 PM

Yeah, I think it is a local company. A family friend sold them to me from his plumbing supply company.

It seems that the distance from the flange to the elbow is very short.
Is there a way to redo the flange without ripping up the floor?

**Tadst34** · 10-03-2012, 02:35 PM

Thanks Terry for posting the picture and the reply. Do you think silicone will hold up better than wax?

I hate to have three different types of toilets in the house. My other toilet is a Mansfield Barrett, which I like a lot but hard to find locally.

**Terry** · 10-03-2012, 03:23 PM

Frankly, I've never tried to seal a hole like that. Thinking about it, maybe epoxy would be better.

**Tadst34** · 10-04-2012, 10:29 AM

Ok, I'm gonna try JB weld - Waterweld. Heard good things. It's worth a try, although it isn't very professional!

**wjcandee** · 10-04-2012, 05:19 PM

If it works, you have saved yourself $200. If not, Gary's sledgehammer idea would probably at least be kind of fun given how much work you put into finding that hole. I take it that the orange-ish moisture near the hole is food coloring. It's amazing how much the dye test helps because if I saw that hole without the dye near it I would probably just assume that it was part of the casting and in a location that it wasn't likely to be the problem.

If you do need a new toilet, the original Drake is now a very good buy in that price range, given the quality of the build and the effectiveness of the flush.