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Thread: Methane in new well

  1. #16
    In the Trades Bob NH's Avatar
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    "why can't you collect the gas like air in a column and vent it at the top?"

    You can vent any air or other gas that separates from the water. That is the same method that is used to vent air from circulating systems such as hydronic heating systems.

    Most gasses will dissolve in water to some degree and will reach equilibrium between the gas pressure and the amount dissolved in the water. That is what happens when methane is mixed with water in the aquifer. When the pressure is reduced, some of the gas is released from solution. If the total pressure of air and gas in a tank is greater than atmospheric pressure, the gas/air mixture can be vented.

    The process for removing methane or other gas in single tank systems is to mix the water with air, and vent the resulting mixture of air and methane. Some of the methane is thereby removed. Some of it remains because there is still a partial pressure of methane in the tank, and because there is not enough time to reach equilibrium. Spraying or otherwise mixing the air and water increases the rate of gas exchange and produces a condition nearer equilibrium.

    It is virtually impossible to remove all of a gas from water by any practical or economical method. It is only possible to reduce it to very small, usually insignificant, quantities.

  2. #17
    In the Trades Bob NH's Avatar
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    Cookie,

    What is dripping? Is there a hole in the roof over the pump? Can you post a photo? I can't figure out why an old well is dripping.

    Is the well one of those with a hand pump? Sounds like it from your comment about pulling the rod. If it is an old hand pump, you should be able to find someone who does antique things to take it out for free.

    It should be pretty easy to get the pump and rod out. Then you want to cap the well so little thingies don't fall in. If you keep it available it is a feature that you could advertise when you sell the house. I hate to see someone drop old rods and stuff into a well. Someone may come along in 20 years and want to use it.

    If you are buying city water to water your flowers and lawn, you might want to use the water from the well for that. You would need some kind of electric pump.

  3. #18
    Plumber plumber1's Avatar
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    Default the answer

    Bob,

    thank you for answering my question...............

    Keith

  4. #19
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    You can vent any air or other gas that separates from the water. That is the same method that is used to vent air from circulating systems such as hydronic heating systems.

    Most gasses will dissolve in water to some degree and will reach equilibrium between the gas pressure and the amount dissolved in the water. That is what happens when methane is mixed with water in the aquifer. When the pressure is reduced, some of the gas is released from solution. If the total pressure of air and gas in a tank is greater than atmospheric pressure, the gas/air mixture can be vented.

    The process for removing methane or other gas in single tank systems is to mix the water with air, and vent the resulting mixture of air and methane. Some of the methane is thereby removed. Some of it remains because there is still a partial pressure of methane in the tank, and because there is not enough time to reach equilibrium. Spraying or otherwise mixing the air and water increases the rate of gas exchange and produces a condition nearer equilibrium.

    How about that, my Sulphur Removal System will work.

    bob...

  5. #20
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Concerning the methane removal. I use an engineered enclosed/sealed atmospheric multiple spray head aeration system with a blower for venting. It removes all gases in the water and then re-pressurizes the water for distribution to the house. Removing and eliminating methane should not be a homegrown type thing. I suggest you know what you're doing before another problem is created that wasn't there to begin with; it doesn't take much methane in a closed space and you have a fairly serious problem.

    Cookie... it sounds as if the ceiling/roof above the well where the access hole is to lift the pipe trough is leaking. The silicone probably has come loose and allowing the water into the room below. Remove the old silicone and replace with new or new caulk. Or cover the hole cover with some plastic etc..

    Wells are decommissioned, meaning filled or otherwise plugged up. It is or can be expensive; they usually use cement.


    Gary
    Quality Water Associates

  6. #21

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    Gary,

    Is it ok, to do nothing with the well? I never paid attention to what my husband did with the well, if anything. It is like a slender tube in the ground where if you look down it you can see water, etc. I just don't want any gasses in there exploding. If you knew my luck you would agree, lol.

    Yeah, I tried the plastic thing over the round thing on the porch, that did not work. I guess it rains in from other points.

    I got to admit though, I get baby skunks there, and they love it. Cute, little things.

  7. #22
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    In most cases gases won't build up in a well, especially if there is not a sealed cap on the casing. You should put a cap on the well to keep things rom falling down the well and to protect he groundwater from contamination. You can buy one for the diameter of the casing, that tube, from any hardware or big box store for like $20.00.

    Gary
    Quality Water Associates

  8. #23
    DIY Junior Member JungleJim's Avatar
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    Default Methane too

    I read ya'll's posts about aeriation and I must do something soon. I just moved into my log home in June and the methane is hammering the pipes and toilet valves really hard. I had a local well and pump contractor install a softener that uses a marble substance in it instead of the green stuff. That was before I knew about the methane. After doing quite a bit of research online, I did the milk jug test and it whooshed out the blue flame... btw, my middle school boys think it is really cool.
    This same pump contractor who is a young fellow just getting started on his own, installed a 40 gallon galvanized tank with a valve on top to let the gas escape. It is still under pressure. It has done nothing to remove the methane. He is recommending now to install an aeriation / chlorinator from Better Water Industries http://www.betterwaterind.com I still have a few concerns after reading your posts.
    1) Mixing chlorine and methane produces chloroform.... Is this a danger?
    2) Does the aeriation chamber have to be cleaned periodically? (my well is deep... 750 feet)
    3) BobNH's description of parts sounds pretty easy but I thought that his placement was before the bladder tank.
    and lastly,
    4) has anyone thought of collecting this methane and using it for fuel? I wonder if there is any viability in that.
    TX

  9. #24
    In the Trades Bob NH's Avatar
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    "I had a local well and pump contractor install a softener that uses a marble substance in it instead of the green stuff. "

    The quote above suggests something about your well and pump contractor that is not a good sign. Maybe you misunderstood him.

    A tank with a marble substance is not a softener. It is an acid neutralizer and actually increases hardness because marble contains calcium.

    I suggest that you spend some time learning the alternatives. You can use a stripper, which is what I described, or you can use a pressurized system such as Gary Slusser described. You are in an area where freezing is probably not a serious problem, so an outside stripper might be a good solution.

    There will not be enough methane in your water to make it worth trying to save. And you risk having it mixed with air, which can produce an explosive mixture.

  10. #25
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    BobNH, the system I suggest(ed) is not pressurized, it is atmospheric, and comes in indoor and outdoor configurations; the outdoor model does not have (need) the blower.

    The open air Sentry 1 would not be my choice. Although it is atmospheric, it does not aerate as well as the system I suggest. It is primarily a chlorination system, the Sentry 1 that I sell, with the aeration as an add on. Plus, mixing chlorine and methane is not a good idea IMO; chloroform definitely isn't.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  11. #26
    In the Trades Bob NH's Avatar
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    http://pubs.cas.psu.edu/FreePubs/pdfs/XH0010.pdf

    With an air stripper consisting of a packed tower with air blowing countercurrent to it, you can expect a 10:1 reduction in about 10 ft of height. Water flow rates are in the range of 10 to 20 GPM per square foot, and air flow rates are on the order of 50 CFM per CFM of water. That is about 100 CFM per 15 GPM of water, or about the capacity of a good squirrel cage bathroom fan.

    The blower is set up to run when the well pump is running.

    You would need an extra pump at the bottom to pump the water to pressure.

    If you are into DIY, this is a project that you could do. It is probably not for a 6,000 sq ft lot in the city, but is certainly reasonable for a rural area or an estate of some kind.

    You would get rid of a lot of the methane with just spraying the water which would flash off methane due to release of pressure and contact with air. I can imagine doing a test by spraying it and collecting it on a sheed of plastic running off into an open collector tank from which it is pumped to pressure. I wouldn't be surprised it that did all you need.

    The amount of stripping required depends on how low you want to get the methane.

    You could set up something in an open air setup with the water trickling over a waterfall arrangement and see if it would meet your needs. You still need the second stage pump and controls.

  12. #27
    DIY Junior Member JungleJim's Avatar
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    Default Air Stripping Methane

    I've noticed that most installation examples of air strippers are located after the bladder tank. What is the best placement?

    Should the collection tank after the air stripping column be vented to the atmosphere? It seems logical to allow more methane to escape.

    I'm going to check on the greensand vs marble setup that I have. Our water is really soft. It feels like the soap doesn't wash off your skin.

    Thanks,
    Jim

  13. #28
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Remember that you don't want to cause any water quality problems while treating for the methane. And air stripping as described probably will introduce bacteria algae etc. to the water. You should use equipment that is designed for potable water treatment, not home grown stuff.

    Greensand and "marble" will not treat methane and the water treatment industry is attempting to get away from the use of potassium permanganate, a serious poison.

    The feeling of your soft water is caused by the natural oil in your skin coming to the surface because there is no hardness in your water to react with your soap to prevent it.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  14. #29
    DIY Junior Member photosean's Avatar
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    Bob, I would like to try and build the system you allude to above. I just put in a new well at a cost of 12 grand and can't afford to buy and install another 3k system. Would you mind sending me the plans/schematic to build a simple system with a vent to remove the excessive methane in my water. I can ignite the gas coming from my shower faucets and they will burn indefinitely until a large burst of gas puts out the flame which can then be reignited and burn and burn and burn...

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