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Thread: Isolating KDF-85 into another tank????

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    DIY Member royerm's Avatar
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    Default Isolating KDF-85 into another tank????

    After a lots of reading in this forum, I'm looking at isolating my KDF into another tank.

    I currently have a Greenway (Sanitizer) system which has CR-100 zeolite and KDF-85
    in a 10x54 tank with a Clack valve.

    In the beginning I only had the CR-100 to remove hardness and Iron and worked great
    for 6 months, than some H2S appeared.

    I Was instructed to add some KDF (on top/wrong) which took care of the problem
    for another 6 months, but some trace of H2S came back.
    As my media was pretty much new I decided to mix it up to extend the life of that set of media and bring the KDF to the bottom and CR100
    on top and see if the problem would be solved. According to the company the KDF should get a proper backwash this way.
    I only wish those tank were transparent to confirm

    I'm now back to the original problem which is .....If I open a tap, the water has NO smell for 40 ounces than I get a smell for the next 40 ounces
    and than OK for as long as I draw water. And this scenario repeats itself very constantly.

    The company send me a new set of media to re-bed it properly, so I have that set of media on standby.

    A few question to start....

    Does the KDF need to be brined with the chlorinated water or just backwashed with water????

    I'm thinking of a second tank 10x18 (KDF) so that it doesn't get hard as a brick if not backwash properly...

    Regards....

  2. #2
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    KDF is a difficult media to do properly, and unfortunately very few companies do it properly. Personally, I think it is an amazing media that is greatly underutilized, but since so few people know how to use it, the media is highly problematic. Check out this link, it is too my system which has a KDF tank done semi-properly. http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...ight=prototype

    Kdf requires a heavy backwash. A 10" tank would require a backwash rate of 16 GPM. My own system uses a 7" diameter tank that only requires 8 GPM to properly backwash. Mixing KDF with other medias should not be done, but a lot of companies claim to have "the right way" figured out. You are on the right path. Seperate tanks for the different medias. http://www.kdfft.com/images/kdf_POESheet.pdf This is a link to the KDF application guide with proper backwash rates. In my system, I have been getting 10 years out of the KDF media with backwashing it once a month. KDF recommends a much more frequent backwashing. My design is obviously not normal, and it is designed to push the limits of what can be done and to test the different adapter types. For your application, assuming your water flow is normal (no mega showers, etc.), an 8x44 tank with 57#'s of KDF, a garnet underbed, and a good backwashing valve (7000 or 2510 is ideal), you should do ok.

    Hope this helps.

  3. #3
    DIY Member royerm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    KDF is a difficult media to do properly, and unfortunately very few companies do it properly. Personally, I think it is an amazing media that is greatly underutilized, but since so few people know how to use it, the media is highly problematic. Check out this link, it is too my system which has a KDF tank done semi-properly. http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...ight=prototype

    Kdf requires a heavy backwash. A 10" tank would require a backwash rate of 16 GPM. My own system uses a 7" diameter tank that only requires 8 GPM to properly backwash. Mixing KDF with other medias should not be done, but a lot of companies claim to have "the right way" figured out. You are on the right path. Seperate tanks for the different medias. http://www.kdfft.com/images/kdf_POESheet.pdf This is a link to the KDF application guide with proper backwash rates. In my system, I have been getting 10 years out of the KDF media with backwashing it once a month. KDF recommends a much more frequent backwashing. My design is obviously not normal, and it is designed to push the limits of what can be done and to test the different adapter types. For your application, assuming your water flow is normal (no mega showers, etc.), an 8x44 tank with 57#'s of KDF, a garnet underbed, and a good backwashing valve (7000 or 2510 is ideal), you should do ok.

    Hope this helps.
    Dittohead..... What got me going was actually your prototype diagram.... Sorry I made a mistake I meant 7 X18 tank for the KDF
    to have proper GPM backwash.

    So a somewhat dumm question which brand is the 7000 or 2510 valve brand name????
    Should I have a separate valve for the KDF tank and softener?????

    Should be Pressure tank/Sanitizer/KDF each having it's own cycle?????

    Still not clear if KDF is only bacwashed with water?????

    Thx

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    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    The 7000 and 2510 are from Pentair (Fleck), both of these valves are top of the line. i would recommend the SXT version for what you are doing. For the 7x18 tank... I would recommend a taller tank. The cost difference is minimal and it will look a little better than the tiny little 7x18. A 7x44 is common stock for most companies.

    The KDF backwashes with water, NACL will not affect it. So in my system design, the KDF is neither harmed nor helped by the salt.

    You could attempt to use a single valve/softenr valve design, but... considering what you are trying to accomplish, and because it is after the fact, a seperate system would be easier. The main advantage to a shared valve system design is the backwash savings, but it is also a hinderance, The KDF should be backwashed more frequently than the water softener. In my old system, the KDF looked like new after 10 years of service being backwashed monthly. Your milage may vary. Every 3rd day backwash is the norm for KDF.

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    DIY Member royerm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    The 7000 and 2510 are from Pentair (Fleck), both of these valves are top of the line. i would recommend the SXT version for what you are doing. For the 7x18 tank... I would recommend a taller tank. The cost difference is minimal and it will look a little better than the tiny little 7x18. A 7x44 is common stock for most companies.

    The KDF backwashes with water, NACL will not affect it. So in my system design, the KDF is neither harmed nor helped by the salt.

    You could attempt to use a single valve/softenr valve design, but... considering what you are trying to accomplish, and because it is after the fact, a seperate system would be easier. The main advantage to a shared valve system design is the backwash savings, but it is also a hinderance, The KDF should be backwashed more frequently than the water softener. In my old system, the KDF looked like new after 10 years of service being backwashed monthly. Your milage may vary. Every 3rd day backwash is the norm for KDF.
    Ok so in series.....Softener than KDF????
    Actually the company recommend every 4-5 days for the CR-100 stuff.
    Can the fleck valve adjust the water flow for backwash??? as I presume that a 7" would require 7-8 GPM...

    Thx

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    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    I prefer to put the KDF first since it is a very strong media (ground up zinc and copper) that should last a very long time if you backwash it adequately.

    A 7" tank requires 25 GPM per sq. ft., so...

    3.5 x 3.5 x 3.14 / 144 x 25 = 6.7 GPM so yes, a 7 GPM button would be proper. If your water is clean, then every few day would be fine.

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