Toto Maris Toilet CST484CEMFG with Dual-Max Cyclone

**peggyandpascal** · 09-22-2012, 10:18 PM

Hi,

Has anyone seen or tried the new Maris toilet?

I was planning to get the Aquia One-Piece but saw some reviews complaining that its flush does not remove all residues due to its small water hole and manual cleaning is required very often. So I was going to go for Legato instead, but now there is Maris. Just wonder if Maris will do better than Aquia performance wise since it uses Dual-Max Cyclone and has SanaGloss despite its small water hole?

Thanks!
Peggy

http://www.totousa.com/ProductDetail...productid=1215

**Gary Swart** · 09-25-2012, 06:34 PM

Glancing over the specs, it appears to be a very worthy addition to the Toto line. Nice, clean lines and the skirt makes this a very good looking toilet. I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. One thing you can be sure of is this is a quality product. Toto does not produce anything but high quality.

**wjcandee** · 09-25-2012, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by Gary Swart

Glancing over the specs, it appears to be a very worthy addition to the Toto line. Nice, clean lines and the skirt makes this a very good looking toilet. I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. One thing you can be sure of is this is a quality product. Toto does not produce anything but high quality.

Pros: It's a dual-flush, but instead of a washdown flush, it's a double-cyclone. The first to blend the two. Cool!

Cons: Brand-new flush-valve, handle-actuated by pulling chains from pushing or pulling handle. PARTS LIST I would love to see more than a sketch of that thing and develop some confidence that it's going to last, as opposed to being like the first batch of Voreto Chinese fill valves. Also the latest Voreto fill valve used in this toilet looks more and more like a 400A (TSU42A, but maybe that's just the sketch). No reason yet to think it can't be replaced by the adjustable Korky, however. I will be very interested to see a video of this toilet operating, as soon as someone has it installed and working.

A few other things stand out: although a skirted toilet, no unifit adapter; now using wing nuts on the tank-to-bowl set; servicing instructions for flush valve look a bit complicated. But we'll see once it's in and working for folks.

I have decided today that I really can't personally stomach funding a Chinese society that would tolerate a mayor ordering a steamroller driver to run over a guy lying in the street trying to block them from knocking down his house. Caution: Graphic Strory Geez...just arrest the guy and drag him away. To murder him is just...too different. My brain just can't wrap around it. Really threw me for a loop. Sorry, can't give these people my money anymore. So...no iPhone for me; I'll keep my Taiwan-made HTC, thank you. It seems that we're destined to have many products produced offshore, but mainland China isn't the only foreign source available. So, if it's a Voreto valve, I'll stick with the models with a Korky flapper, thank you very much.

**FunNut** · 10-09-2012, 04:34 PM

So do all Toto toilets have Chinese parts? I'm getting ready to buy two new toilets and agree with avoiding Chinese anything.

**wjcandee** · 10-09-2012, 06:54 PM

No, Toto has a number of toilets in which the china is made in the US, and the "trim" (i.e. fill valve, flapper, etc.) are made in the US by Korky. Any toilet that takes the "red" Toto flapper uses a Korky flapper (at least it used to). I read a review on a major merchant's web site where an engineer went into Full Geek mode and compared the tool marks on the flapper that came with his Toto Drake to the tool marks on the Korky "Fits Toto" Red flapper, made in Wisconsin, that he had bought at Lowe's to replace it. (The Korky flapper you buy at Lowe's, being a factory-authorized product, actually says "Toto" on it.) He concluded that they were unequivocally made on the same machine; not the same type of machine, the same machine, in Wisconsin. Depending upon where the Toto toilet is molded, you may or may not get it with a Korky 528 fill valve, also made in the US. And now, when you want to order the replacement fill valve for virtually any Toto toilet directly from Toto, they are going to steer you to a valve called the TSU99A.X, which is their new universal replacement fill valve, regardless of what fill valve came with your toilet. That, too, is a version of the Korky 528MP, the Korky version of which you can get at Lowe's. (There may be some slight differences in the valve designed for Toto, but it is effectively the same thing.) All of this stuff is Made in the US.

That said, Toto makes some models only in the US, and some models in various places, like Vietnam and Mexico. They are the world's largest plumbing fixture company, so naturally they have plants all over. I have a tank made in the US and a tank made not in the US. I have a bowl made in the US and a bowl not made in the US. Interestingly, the US tank wasn't delivered with the US bowl. The quality on all of them was excellent, indistinguishable one from the other. Nothing came from China, except that one of the Drakes (and my Carlyle) came with that Voreto valve, which was designed (and patented) by two Toto engineers and built by a company called Voreto in Xiamen, China. I disposed of the Voreto valve in my Drake, which made an annoying chirping sound, and replaced it with a Korky 528T, and now it shuts off just like the Drake that came from the factory with the 528T, i.e. smoothly, with no chirp. From what I can tell from the patent application, Toto had some design goals with that Voreto valve along the lines of reducing customer complaints and confusion, making it more idiot-proof to maintain, and making it shut off more affirmatively. I understand why they want to go there, but I think they have just induced a different set of complaints. But, hey, it's a toilet fill valve so it isn't the end of the world in any event.

Otherwise, the design mandate on the Totos was for a long time to keep it gimmick-free, simple, and of high-quality. I'm not sure that the marketing people aren't pushing away from that "gimmick-free" part a little bit, but we will see as this next round of toilets comes on-line. Is that new flush valve a real technological advancement, or is it a gimmick? Only use will tell.

Bottom line, you can look on Terry's sales page and see which toilets are all made here in the US, and even if you get something like the Drake, you can always ask at your plumbing supply if they have a tank and a bowl that have "Made in the US" on them, or if they can secure you one. Most other brands, like American Standard, Crane, Kohler and others (except Mansfield), build most of their toilets in Mexico. And the Fluidmaster 400A valve, the mainstay of US toilet fill valves, is made there as well.

Hope this helps.

**Gary Swart** · 10-10-2012, 01:39 AM

One of the main factors on where Toto locates their plants is the quality of the clay in that area. They do not have plants in China, but as pointed out by WJ, since they are the largest manufacturer of toilets in the world, they do have plants in countries other than the US. It is worth noting however, Toto designs and quality control make it possible for mixing and matching bowls and tanks (two piece models) The not only fit perfectly, the color matches are perfect as well.

**ThomasD.** · 02-07-2013, 07:31 AM

Hey, would like to revive this thread. Is there anymore information or input on the Toto Maris. Literally about to order the wall mounted Aquia and just found out about the Maris. Can't find any reviews about it. I'm going with the Geberit Wall Carrier, so flushing mechanisms and parts are not my main concern. Just want to know how it compares with the Aquia and if it's available. Was about to order the Aquia from Love Plumbing today. Just one now to make sure we like it and 5 more for the bed & breakfast later.The "Home Improvement" shows are always installing these wall mount toilets but I can never find any substantial reviews about them. So, any current information about the Aquia and Maris would sure be appreciated.
Thanks
Thomas

**wjcandee** · 02-07-2013, 08:00 AM

Take a look at the spec sheets from the Toto web site. MARIS SPECS AQUIA SPECS

The Maris wall-hung and Aquia wall-hung are both washdown flushes. (The Maris floor-mount model uses a Double-Cyclone, but that wouldn't work on a wall-mount because it has to work with a wall tank.) The Maris is a little different looking, and is an inch longer. They both have the same trap size and water consumption. The Aquia water spot is a little bigger. Given that they use a standard carrier, they are going to mount pretty much the same.

I think it's going to boil down to aesthetics. Maybe an advantage to the Maris sitting position being a little further forward off the wall, although the spec sheet isn't 100 percent clear on that; i.e. where the extra inch comes from.

We have the Aquia wall-hung at my club's beach house, with Toto carriers. Looks nice and works reliably. I assume the same will be true for the Maris.

**ThomasD.** · 02-08-2013, 07:13 AM

Appreciate the response. I agree that the specs are very similar. That made me wonder if I was missing something. Why 2 products with such similarity? The slightly rounded tank of the Maris will be non existent with a wall carrier. And couldn't really see much difference in the bowl design and looks. Ordering the package through Love Plumbing since they are considerably less expensive than out local parts houses up here. Thanks again.

**Terry** · 02-08-2013, 10:42 AM

I'm going with the Geberit Wall Carrier, so flushing mechanisms and parts are not my main concern. Just want to know how it compares with the Aquia and if it's available.

I checked the Geberit web page, and their carrier uses the 320 dual-flush tank, which is listed as working with the Bolero Actuator Plate from Geberit.
And of course the CT418FG Aquia bowl works with the carrier.

CT418FG Aquia

Maris CT486FG wall-hung bowl

**wjcandee** · 02-08-2013, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by ThomasD.

Appreciate the response. I agree that the specs are very similar. That made me wonder if I was missing something. Why 2 products with such similarity? The slightly rounded tank of the Maris will be non existent with a wall carrier. And couldn't really see much difference in the bowl design and looks. Ordering the package through Love Plumbing since they are considerably less expensive than out local parts houses up here. Thanks again.

Actually, given that there is a limit to how "different" a bowl can look when it's hanging off the wall, I think that these two do have different looks. Take a look at the photos in the spec sheets. As a practical matter, I think that the Maris might be a little more comfortable given that the seat bolts (and thus the whole sitting position) seem to be about an inch further off the wall than the Aquia. OTOH, if you are trying to minimize instrusion into the room, maybe that absence of an inch of china on the Aquia makes a difference.

Of course, I think Terry deserves every bit of business that he gets, so I'm glad you are ordering from him!!

**ThomasD.** · 02-13-2013, 07:22 AM

Maris wall mount w/ Geberit wall carrier ordered from Love Plumbing. Have to wait for the Horizontal Discharge adapter pipe to make it in before shipment. Will be glad to give a review upon installation. Bathroom remodel in framing stage, waiting for wall carrier to start finishing. Ordering from Terry and dealing with both Jamie / Terry was painless & productive. . Having been a small Electrical Contracting business myself for 20+ years, I appreciate the one on one of a smaller family operated business.
Thanks