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Thread: Jet pump to submersable conversion questions.

  1. #31
    DIY Senior Member craigpump's Avatar
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    I believe the pipe I used was Certaline, and it slipped right through my monitor hook. Several other installers in my area had the same problem. Sch 120 has a heavier wall thickness than sch 80, maybe that's why you haven't had the same issue?

    Yep, sch 80 is threaded and coupled on both ends. I know some guys will use either brass or stainless couplings, but we use sch 120 pvc couplings and have had no problems. A little Rector Seal, hand tighten the joint and put it in the hole.

    The only pvc I have seen with glued ends is the older sch 40 and sch 21 that was used eons ago. I have pulled pipe that had clamps on the female ends to prevent splitting! I mean, WTF??

  2. #32
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    WTF, it didnt split, right?

  3. #33
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcpumpguy View Post
    As a rule we never set poly deeper than 200 feet, and when they are set that deep we have an electric winch to pull with. I have used quite a bit of the johnson surealign schd 120 it does not deform i can tell you that, its also impossible to cross thread which is nice when you're in a hurry. So you must be buying sched 80 threaded on both sides and using brass couplings? Around here i have seen it done but usually its glued, or they glue on male and female adapters which really makes me nervous. Specially when you pull it out and and you can see a crack in the female adapter....


    http://www.johnsonscreens.com/en/con...lign-drop-pipe
    I set poly to 350' and as long as the well has some water in it, can be pulled by hand. Nothing is more obvious as best as NO JOINTS. And looong barbs with tons of clamps. By the way, all the Poly Mfgrs. make it a big point that you never torch poly but heat with hot water or a hair dryer. Got a torch? heat a can of water and pour it on the pipe.

    And someone said "hand tight joints with rector seal" is that a joke? Better get a good safety rope.

  4. #34
    DIY Member bcpumpguy's Avatar
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    yeah around the wells 200ft plus wells usually have low statics you might see something a 150'. As far as pvc pipe goes I have not used it (until we started with the johnson pipe) in wells, never seen sched 80 pvc pipe come threaded. As far as I'm concerned only place sched 40 and 80 belongs above ground, not in a well.

  5. #35
    DIY Senior Member craigpump's Avatar
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    If you read the bag the Campbell couplings come in it says hand tight. Once you run those joints up by hand, you have to use pipe wrenches to loosen them. In 27 yrs I have NEVER seen a string of sch 80 unscrew or break apart.

    No the bell end did not split, but it deformed just enough to slip through the Monitor hook.

    Never seen threaded sch 80? Really? We install miles of it every year.

  6. #36
    Well Drilling/Service justwater's Avatar
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    i've never seen sch 80 that didnt come threaded, i thought that was the main reason people bought it. btw, u can thread it with a hand threader.. not a machine (or at least not my machines). if ur gonna glue it, whats the point in using 80 over 40?

  7. #37
    DIY Senior Member craigpump's Avatar
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    What happens if you use a power threader?

  8. #38
    Well Drilling/Service justwater's Avatar
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    i tried it a few times with the ridgid 535.. i guess because the pipe is limber, softer, or whatever.. it did ok a turn or two but ended up cutting too deep on one side and breaking.. it may have just been from the cuttings bunching up. with the hand threader you can take ur time and keep everything clean. it took me a few tries but i got the hang of it pretty quick.

    works best for me when putting pipe in a chain vise and spin the threader full circles, no ratcheting. thats my experience anyway.
    Last edited by justwater; 09-13-2012 at 06:57 PM.

  9. #39
    DIY Member bcpumpguy's Avatar
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    we just buy it for plumbing up pump houses or filter systems, nothing else. Why buy schedule 80 over 40? pressure rating...

    so how deep do you set pumps with schedule 80? what sizes do you use?

  10. #40
    Well Drilling/Service justwater's Avatar
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    i think sch 40- 1" is like 450 psi?, 1.25" is 370psi?... not sure why someone might need more than that, especially above the ground.. but maybe so.

    where i am, subs arent set deeper than 140' so i cant speak for the deep sets. sch 80 threaded 1" and 1.25 is used for most residential here.. the rare 2" for larger pumps in which case i would usually install steel pipe.

  11. #41
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    1” Sch 40 is good to 450 PSI, but the glue joint is only good to 270 PSI. 1” sch 80 is good to 630 PSI, but the threaded ends cuts out a lot of meat and decreases the pressure rating by to 315 PSI. Of course burst pressure is usually 2 to 5 times the pipes pressure ratting.

    I have been using sch 80 threaded with galv coupling since about 1973. I didn’t know of anybody else that was using it back then, but I was installing enough pumps to do some trial and error studies. Found out that threaded PVC couplings would come unscrewed. Found out Galv couplings worked well, but didn’t need any pipe dope or Teflon tape. Just run them dry and tighten until it pops a time or two and quit.

    “Found out” means had some come unscrewed and had to fish for the pump. Had some that wouldn’t come unscrewed and had to cut the pipe. Lots of trial and error until I figured out to run the threads dry and quit after it pops a time or two.

    Set a lot of 2 HP and smaller pumps from 50’ to 300’ deep on 1 ” sch 80. Set some 5 HP on 2” up to about 200’ deep. I see a lot of people now use the Sch 120 with belled and threaded ends. Looks like a good idea, except I am still uncertain about the PVC female threaded ends. I am afraid they may come unscrewed like the old PVC threaded couplings.

    I also set a few pumps on poly pipe to maybe 300’ deep, when I couldn’t get a rig to the location or something.

    The only problem I have ever had with any flexible drop pipe is from cycling on and off. The wire will be slapped against the casing or rub the pipe until you get a short. Double jacketed wire like the THHN, which is my favorite, last a lot longer. I never liked cable guards, torque arrestors, or rope as they can get stuck and keep you from getting the pump out of the well.

    After I started using Cycle Stop Valves on every pump system, I never had another problem with rubbing the wire. When the pump doesn’t continually cycle on and off, you no longer rub the wire, and you don’t need torque arrestors or cable guards.

    In the oil fields around here they install a lot of big pumps on 3” and 4” poly pipe up to about 500’ deep. They use heavy wall poly we call “fast line”. Also see a lot of people using 3”, 4”, even 6” fire hose. You know the kind that rolls up flat, but it can take 600 PSI. They just put a big pulley on top of the well and pull out the whole string at once while tied to the bumper of a pickup. Startup or pumping the well dry will cause them to really spin in the well, so eliminating the cycling is very important.
    Last edited by valveman; 09-14-2012 at 06:37 AM.

  12. #42
    DIY Senior Member craigpump's Avatar
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    Why use sch 80 over sch 40? I have seen way to times when the pipe breaks above the glue joints. It seems that sch 40 just doesn't have enough tensile strength for down hole pump installations, possibly the glue creates a weak spot just above the glue joint??

    We routinely set sch 80 to 600' with no problems, I have seen sch 120 used down to 700' with no issues. Past 700' I use steel.

    I used to use galvanized couplings on sch 80 when I worked for someone else, but began using sch 120 couplings in the mid '90's. We always used Rector Seal on the threads but I have seen some guys use Vasoline.

    You say that you have seen sch 80 unscrew and had to fish for the pump. I wonder if the previous pump guy didn't snug up the joints. As you know, if the joints are run up tight by hand, you need a pipe wrench to break them loose. The only times I have seen a pump hanging from sch 80 was in a run dry condition and the heat from the pump created steam which deformed the pipe just above the pumps and then they were brought out by the wire.

  13. #43
    DIY Member bcpumpguy's Avatar
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    so what hp size pumps will you set down that deep then? 600 feet is 260 psi, your getting close to the burst rating that valveman says is 315psi for sched 80 threaded, specially when you add any sort of operating pressure. I imagine these are open flow however.
    Last edited by bcpumpguy; 09-15-2012 at 06:31 PM.

  14. #44
    In the Trades Texas Wellman's Avatar
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    Got a source for that Cary? I've never heard that before. We very rarely set anything past 200' so I've never really concerned myself with the pressure ratings.

    1 sch 80 is good to 630 PSI, but the threaded ends cuts out a lot of meat and decreases the pressure rating by to 315 PSI

  15. #45
    DIY Member bcpumpguy's Avatar
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