(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 46

Thread: Jet pump to submersable conversion questions.

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member Wet Willie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    9

    Default Jet pump to submersable conversion questions.

    First time poster. This forum has been invaluable in keeping my jet pump setup limping along but you can on put so many band aids on a bullet hole.

    I've done a lot of research both here and on the net and I want to make sure I understand what I'm doing.

    Here are a few specifics on the well.
    • Well is 135' deep.
    • It's a 6 inch casing.
    • The well head (distance to water surface) is 74'
    • I only have 110 at pump house and not going to run 220 to it.


    Ok, now here are some of my questions.
    • Will a 1/2 hp 10 gpm pump be sufficient?
    • What is the difference between a 2 wire and a 3 wire pump?
    • Do I have to run a ground wire to the well casing?
    • As I understand the wire should be taped to the supply line every 5'-8', but the safety rope I use should stand seperate?
    • Does the nylon rope support the pump or is it supported by the pipe (PE) coming through the well cap like the current setup?


    I'm sure I'll have a few more questions but that will have to wait until I finish my coffee.

    -Wet Willie-

  2. #2
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    3,681

    Default

    Why not convert to 220V?
    A 2 wire does the start/run in the pump. A 3 wire does the start/run in the control box.
    You should most likely bond the ground to the casing.
    HP and GPM depends on your planned water use and on what your well can produce as well as the size of your pressure tank. Given the static water level, I think 1/2 HP, 10 GPM is a minimum.
    The wire should be taped to the downpipe as you mentioned.
    The pipe should bear the weight, not a rope.

  3. #3
    DIY Junior Member Wet Willie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LLigetfa View Post
    Why not convert to 220V?
    I'm a jack of all trades EXCEPT electrician. The breaker/service box for the property is a fair distance and on the other side of the driveway so burying cable is out. I also believe it may be at it's limit running the house, a in ground swimming pool, and a hot tub. I'm still researching but for now I'm stuck with 110.

    Quote Originally Posted by LLigetfa View Post
    HP and GPM depends on your planned water use and on what your well can produce as well as the size of your pressure tank. Given the static water level, I think 1/2 HP, 10 GPM is a minimum.
    Well is servicing a house with 2 adults, daily showers,3 loads of laundry per week, run dishwasher every other day or so. I'm currently considering a 3/4hp 10 gpm 2 wire pump but I'm still trying to find out if it's a 110 or 220 pump.

    Quote Originally Posted by LLigetfa View Post
    The pipe should bear the weight, not a rope.
    So the rope is used to lower and raise pump and as a safety retrieval feature in case of pipe or pump breakage?

  4. #4
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    3,681

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wet Willie View Post
    I'm a jack of all trades EXCEPT electrician. The breaker/service box for the property is a fair distance and on the other side of the driveway so burying cable is out.
    If 110 is not used for other things in the wellhouse, the existing pair of wires could be used and no new wire needed. This of course assumes that there is space in the panel for a 220 breaker.

    One thing for sure... you have a lot more pump options at 220 than at 110.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wet Willie View Post
    Well is servicing a house with 2 adults, daily showers,3 loads of laundry per week, run dishwasher every other day or so. I'm currently considering a 3/4hp 10 gpm 2 wire pump but I'm still trying to find out if it's a 110 or 220 pump.
    Lifestyle and irrigation are bigger factors. A shower could mean a single 2.5 GPM showerhead or full body sprays. A shower could be 2 minutes with the water turned off between lathering or could be a 20 minute stress reliever.

    How much the well can produce may be a factor. Tank size will be a factor unless you have a Cycle Stop Valve or you can match the draw to the supply.

    Measure how many GPM your current setup produces and decide if it is adequate for your current lifestyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wet Willie View Post
    So the rope is used to lower and raise pump and as a safety retrieval feature in case of pipe or pump breakage?
    Yes. Some folks are dead set against even using a rope. If it were to break and/or fall down into the well, it can make pulling the pump a major PITA. Without it, if the pump were to unscrew itself from torque, then the wire is the only thing left holding it. The naysayers prefer to risk losing the pump down the hole rather than risk the rope jamming the pump in the hole.

  5. #5
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    3,681

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LLigetfa View Post
    ...if the pump were to unscrew itself from torque, then the wire is the only thing left holding it.
    Perhaps I should elaborate on this a bit. Some pumps have plastic heads versus SS and getting a good tight fit on the threads can be difficult, the result being that the pump unscrews itself from torque. I assume you plan to use a brass or SS barb fitting, not plastic.

  6. #6
    DIY Member bcpumpguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Langley BC
    Posts
    70

    Default

    depeding on what wire gauge you have there you might not be able to run a 110v pump see this chart for info http://www.franklin-electric.com/aim...l/page-11.aspx

  7. #7
    DIY Junior Member Wet Willie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LLigetfa View Post
    If 110 is not used for other things in the wellhouse, the existing pair of wires could be used and no new wire needed. This of course assumes that there is space in the panel for a 220 breaker.
    I have 10 ga run to the pump house now. The problem is it runs a security light, a freezer in the shed and a 110 outlet. I think I might use the 10 ga and install a 220 breaker in the panel (there is room to switch the single for a double pole) and run 12ga wire to pump house for for the 110...only problem is I REALLY didn't want to dig trench etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by LLigetfa View Post
    One thing for sure... you have a lot more pump options at 220 than at 110.
    Yes, I can't find a 110v in stock locally and waiting is not an option.

    Quote Originally Posted by LLigetfa View Post
    Lifestyle and irrigation are bigger factors. A shower could mean a single 2.5 GPM showerhead or full body sprays. A shower could be 2 minutes with the water turned off between lathering or could be a 20 minute stress reliever.
    Measure how many GPM your current setup produces and decide if it is adequate for your current lifestyle.
    Hot tub is my stress reliever. Showers are typical 5 minute affairs. I don't have #'s but the well seems sufficient it's just the original jet pump setup has always been troublesome and now with age it's just given up the ghost.

    Quote Originally Posted by LLigetfa View Post
    Yes. Some folks are dead set against even using a rope. If it were to break and/or fall down into the well, it can make pulling the pump a major PITA. Without it, if the pump were to unscrew itself from torque, then the wire is the only thing left holding it. The naysayers prefer to risk losing the pump down the hole rather than risk the rope jamming the pump in the hole.
    I'll use a rope for sure. I had planned on using a barbed brass fitting on the pump and using loc-tite also

  8. #8
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    3,681

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wet Willie View Post
    I have 10 ga run to the pump house now.
    Should I assume it is 2 conductor plus protection ground? If there is a third conductor, you have what it takes to have both 110 and 220. In hindsight, a conduit with pull rope would have been nice.

  9. #9
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    3,681

    Default

    You might also want to ask in the electrical forum what the NEC requirement is WRT grounding/bonding. In my jurisdiction the inspector insisted that I bond my well casing to the house ground with #6 wire. I don't know under what circumstance the existing wiring is grandfathered in versus needing to be brought up to code.

    Here as well, we need to bury the line 3 feet deep and put caution tape 1 & 1/2 feet deep.

  10. #10
    DIY Junior Member Wet Willie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LLigetfa View Post
    Should I assume it is 2 conductor plus protection ground? If there is a third conductor, you have what it takes to have both 110 and 220. In hindsight, a conduit with pull rope would have been nice.
    Again, I'm not an electrician. The 10 ga wire that is currently in place is 3 wire (I will need to check to be sure) so I guess that's 2 conductor + ground. I plan on consulting my BIL, a retired electrician, but in the mean time can you elaborate on both 110 and 220 from the single 10 ga I have now? Hindsight is 20/20 unfortunately this was in place when we purchased house.

  11. #11
    DIY Junior Member Wet Willie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Just checked, the wire running to pump house is labeled 10/2 with ground.

  12. #12
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    3,681

    Default

    Generally 2-wire is actually 2 conductors plus protection ground and 3-wire is 3 conductors plus protection ground.

    The transformer on the pole or pad is likely a 240 Volt with centre tap. The centre tap is your neutral which gets bonded to the ground. The two hots, have 240 between them and 120 between each and the centre tap neutral.


  13. #13
    DIY Junior Member Wet Willie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    9

    Default

    So in essence I can run 220 through my existing 10/2 with ground into a box (of some sort) and pull 220 from box to pump AND use just one conductor and ground from "box" to power 110?

  14. #14
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    3,681

    Default

    No, that is not legal. While technically the ground it bonded to the neutral and would give you half the voltage, the neutral must be in the same jacket as the other two conductors and except in certain cases, it also needs to be the same AWG as the other two conductors.

  15. #15
    Well Drilling/Service justwater's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    NE FL, SE GA
    Posts
    320

    Default

    with water at 75', any sub will likely deliver much more water than your current jet pump can. i'd personally stick with the 2 wire pumps. if 220 is not an option and the wire size/lengths permit for the 1/2hp 110v sub... the 7 or even 5gpm models are better suited for your water level. the 10gpm model would probably work but kinda falls off the curve at your water level.

    if 220 is doable, then yea got more options.

Similar Threads

  1. picking submersable pump/ calculating resistance from a long run of water pipe
    By kavik in forum Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-01-2012, 11:41 PM
  2. replacing check valve on submersable pump???
    By jaybob in forum Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-08-2011, 12:29 PM
  3. 4 in. Submersable Water Pump Question!
    By BlakeJ in forum Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 10-30-2009, 07:44 PM
  4. Water Pump Conversion
    By Jag in forum Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-11-2009, 08:29 AM
  5. Submersable pump blues
    By nascar fan in forum Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-18-2007, 12:01 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •