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Thread: Kohler Cimarron toilet review, Owner comments and pictures

  1. #91

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    Are your Cimarrons Class 5 or Class 6 ?
    Are they 1.28 gpf or 1.6 gpf ??

    Without that info we don't know if we are comparing apples to apples.

  2. #92
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Without that info we don't know if we are comparing apples to apples.
    The Kohler Class six rinses better then the Kohler class five.
    But it's still lacking compared to other brands.

    Since you are an engineer, I will put it this way.

    The Class five left out all of the rinse holes at the back of the bowl.
    Kohler's comment, was that the homeowner could "wax" the back of the bowl.

    The Class six now has rinse holes 360 degrees around the bowl, but they are spaced so wide, that the water streams don't cover the entire bowl, they are thin water streaks running down the bowl with gaps in between.
    This isn't rocket science.
    Most toilet bowls rinse with water. Water cleans.
    If the water doesn't touch the bowl, it doesn't clean.

    The trapway on the five and the six has a sharp bend where it leaves the bowl.
    Most plugs are there.


    You will notice that the TOTO trapyway points the waste down the drain.
    The Kohler trapway doesn't.
    Last edited by Terry; 12-12-2009 at 10:29 AM.

  3. #93
    DIY Senior Member achutch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksan View Post
    Are your Cimarrons Class 5 or Class 6 ?
    Are they 1.28 gpf or 1.6 gpf ??

    Without that info we don't know if we are comparing apples to apples.
    It was a Class 5. I bought it in 2004 based on info from the Kohler web site, and well before I discovered Terry's site. The rinse on the Class 5 was unacceptable, and so was the waste of the money that I spent on it. I limped with it for a year before I discovered Terry's site.

    My Toto Drake, which replaced the Cimarron has been in place since 2005 has not been a disappointment. It doesn't plug, it rinses well, and it is of top quality with no defects. (My A S Cadet in the half bath also rinses well and doesn't clog. But you need to inspect the bowl in the store, because there are quality control issues with that brand, as many report here, plus I also experienced (2 bad bowls brought back to the store)).

    In my case, both toilets do what I need them to do, and both are keepers.

    achutch

  4. #94
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    Default Cimarron Class 6 Installation Problem

    It seems like the Cimarron bowls aren't being molded/cast properly. I have returned THREE of these to Lowe's because they won't sit flat on the floor. Every one of them has rocked to some degree. I initially set them down without the wax ring just to make sure they fit properly and even bolted one down and it still rocked a bit. I know my floor is OK because I had it redone a few years ago. The original 3.5 gallon toilet was fine. Then I got a Jacuzzi Perfecta and the plumber had no problem. I actually removed and reset the Jacuzzi twice myself (when I thought I was installing a Kohler) and it would not rock. I've found out that the Kohlers I tried have some "ridges" or "support points" on the bottom that have been higher than the outer edges of the bowl. This is a no-brainer: the bowl WILL rock in these cases and WON"T SIT FLAT. I even went back to Lowes and opened a sealed box and PROVED to them that these were not cast right. This is easy, just turn the bowl over, then pass a straight edge across the bottom. If it stops or encounters resistance, then something isn't right. I called Kohler and they pretty much just blew me off. Too, bad, because I like the style and the ease of installation of the tank. BUT NOW, FORGET KOHLER. If they aren't willing to at least listen, then I'm going to another brand. I'm going to try the Cadet 3, which has gotten good reviews. I have talked to a very reputable plumber and he has had the same experience, so it's not just me ! Maybe Kohler will read this and DO SOMETHING !!

  5. #95
    DIY Junior Member Lots to Learn's Avatar
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    Default Running Kohler Toilet Class Five

    I know running toilets are not a challenging question on this site, but I hope you'll have the patience to give me some suggestions. Brand new Kohler K-3489 toilet with Class Five flushing system installed last night is running. Water level looks okay (as does everything else). I think my next step is to check the fill valve for debris, correct? I can't imagine a leak around the flapper since it is new. Anyway, if so, how do I pop off the red cover to inspect the seal of the fill valve? Forgive me if it's obvious-- I'm very slow and very cautious, and also very tired (two steps fwd, one step back it seems).

    BTW here's a video of the problem:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9ZmZo6Zim4

  6. #96
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    WHere is the water level in the tank? If it never gets high enough to flow out the overflow tube, then it is indeed the flapper valve leaking (almost always, but there are a few other possibilities). If you shut the supply off, does the water level go down? My guess is yes. So, the flapper is defective. Kohler is my last choice of a toilet.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lots to Learn View Post
    I know running toilets are not a challenging question on this site, but I hope you'll have the patience to give me some suggestions. Brand new Kohler K-3489 toilet with Class Five flushing system installed last night is running. Water level looks okay (as does everything else). I think my next step is to check the fill valve for debris, correct? I can't imagine a leak around the flapper since it is new. Anyway, if so, how do I pop off the red cover to inspect the seal of the fill valve? Forgive me if it's obvious-- I'm very slow and very cautious, and also very tired (two steps fwd, one step back it seems).

    BTW here's a video of the problem:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9ZmZo6Zim4
    One of two things. You could have a defective fill valve or there is trash under the seal that under the red cap. Turn the water off and disconnect the plastic rod with the phillips head screw on top of it that adjusts the water level up or down,it just snaps out. Then let the lever from the red cap drop into its natural down position and rotate the lever and the red cap counter clockwise.It should lift off now. Now check for debris and wash out as needed. Re-install in reverse order. If that doesn't work,replace the valve with the exact type....I'm not sure if that toilet requires a high refill rate for the bowl...if it does make sure you get a comparible ballcock for replacement. Preferably the original from the manufacturer since its new. That ballcock is made by Fluidmaster for kohler.

  8. #98
    Engineer maddog's Avatar
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    I think there is a one year warranty on the toilet. The fluidmaster fill valve should be covered. You can give Kohler a call at 1-800-4KOHLER (1-800-456-4537).

  9. #99
    DIY Junior Member Lots to Learn's Avatar
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    Default Ah ha!

    Well, there you go. I was sure it couldn't be the flapper, and it's the flapper. The water level drops to the flapper and stays there. Thank you for the suggestions! (I never could get that fill valve cap off.) How ridiculous is that on a new toilet?

    Yeah, I picked up on how generally reviled Kohler is on this website, but that wasn't until after I ordered it (to match the Kohler vessel sink).

    But I really can't complain. Hypothetically speaking imagine that it ended up being free because of an unrelated flaw in the glaze. (Which is also why in this hypothetical situation I would need to fix this myself-- hypothetically speaking it would have been "scrapped in the field.")

    And I figure that even with its flaws it still has got to be better than what the high-volume builder put in 18 years ago.

  10. #100
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    I haven't opened up a Fluidmaster valve for awhile, but they used to require you to press down, and turn 1/16-turn or so, then it came apart. Once apart, the seal could be replaced. The instructions should be on their website. Make sure to turn the water supply off first!
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  11. #101
    In the Trades Gary Swart's Avatar
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    I'm glad you found the problem and that it is simple to fix. It is true that the Kohler toilets do not rate very high with most of the regulars on this forum. It seems that there are sharp bends in the trap way that create a clog potential. Perhaps you will be lucky and not have this problem, but if you do have clogs you will soon get tired of plunging and the cheap price will not look so wonderful Then you may want look at the Toto line of toilets.

  12. #102
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    The flush valve?

    Darn,
    The first thing we normally check is the flapper or flush valve.
    If that's leaking, then of course the fill valve is going to keep topping off the tank.

    The slight drip as it nears the shuoff point, is part of the anti-siphon, and is nothing to worry about.
    Last edited by Terry; 01-08-2010 at 08:31 AM.

  13. #103
    Engineer maddog's Avatar
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    The video shows water squirting out of the top of the fill valve, which looks a little strange. Not the normal place for the fill valve to release water. Maybe very high water pressure or a faulty fill valve? But if a new flapper fixes the problem - that's great to know ...

  14. #104
    DIY Junior Member Lots to Learn's Avatar
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    Oh goody, now I get to learn all about repairing/replacing the flapper and/or the flush valve. Which was the main problem with the toilet I pulled.

    But before I get to that, I'm going to see about changing my order for two K-11456 toilets (that I picked out with my hypothetical credit for this toilet) to a couple of Totos.

    I do have to give credit to Kohler for very promptly crediting the cost of this ($500) toilet when we discovered the glaze flaw (which was staring back up at us when we opened the box) which is why I ordered two more Kohlers, but this new flusher/flapper issue is dissolving my resolve to give them the benefit of the doubt.

  15. #105
    DIY Junior Member Lots to Learn's Avatar
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    Here's where I'm at: The water level recedes to the interface of the flapper and the rim of the flush valve. The flapper has no flaws that I can see, nor does the rim. So I can't figure out where it is not sealing/why it is leaking. I note that the inside of the flush valve feels gritty, so I tried to wipe everything in case debris was impeding the seal. Didn't work. And it still feels gritty.

    I know I could first try replacing the flapper, but I really don't see a problem with it, and I'd like very much to pinpoint the source of the problem. Ultimately will I have to replace the entire (new) flush valve assembly anyway?

    If anyone can suggest further tests I can do or things to look for I'd be grateful.

    BTW I changed my order from two K-11456s to two Toto Drakes with SanaGloss-- can I get an amen?
    Last edited by Lots to Learn; 01-09-2010 at 09:36 AM.

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