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Thread: American Standard Champion toilet Review and comments. Rated #1 by Consumer Reports

  1. #286
    DIY Junior Member glundy's Avatar
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    Default Champion 4 updated flush valve

    I am still interested in a one piece champion 4 toilet.

    Are they still available and are they finally fixed.

  2. #287
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glundy View Post
    I am still interested in a one piece champion 4 toilet.

    Are they still available and are they finally fixed.
    Why?

    Thats debatable!


    I'd rather have a root canal sans novacaine than install one.

  3. #288
    Plunger/TurdPuncher kingsotall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
    Why?

    Thats debatable!


    I'd rather have a root canal sans novacaine than install one.


    You have earned AS's coveted Mega Plumber award.

  4. #289
    Master Plumber Dunbar Plumbing's Avatar
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    I got a call today that my customer picked up 3 AS 4's for me to install this week, all at one house.


    They'll have the new ones next to the old ones, the husband is going to get the old ones to the garage. It don't get much better than that.


    I tried reworking 3 peerless toilets they had, big mistake even though it was a simple setup. Parts even from the mfg. didn't make the difference.

    AS 4's are real heavy, like pick up a pack of preparation H suppositories at Walgreens heavy.

  5. #290
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking takes a special deep socket wrench

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    It's simple. Smart plumbers don't install a beast like the Champion.
    The Champion was one of the hardest installations ever for a toilet.
    You would have to be some kind of masochist to want to install them for a living. They are way too heavy for a two piece toilet, and like you mention, the tank bolts are very hard to get at.
    Other brands are much easier to install.


    They are horrible to fool with and you must , absolutely must get a deep socket set from Sears that will go up into the tiny slot that they provide for the nut and bolt to sit into.. I have a couple kits with the screwdriver handle..with me at all times...




    But wait.... the real fun is going to be in 5-10 years from now when those nuts totally rust and freeze solid due to condensation and you will never, ever be able to get that tank apart again.....

    I cant see how it will be ever be possible, no way ...no..how





    Rugged, if you have not done that job jet, go get the deep socket set with the screwdriver handle shank in 1/4 inch at SEARS for about 25 bucks......

    it will save yourself a lot of crying and knashing of teeth...





    y

  6. #291
    Comments by readers Reader Review's Avatar
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    Default Champion model 2002

    I had purchased a "water saver" toilet in many years ago when they first came out. I was never satisfied with its flushing ability. Three years ago I bought an American Standard Champion "right height" elongated bowl
    toilet and installed it myself. The DIY installation was not too
    difficult. A problem was with the thick rubber gasket that fits between the tank and the bowl. I tightened the nuts under the edge of the bowl pretty tightly, but the tank still leaned toward the wall. I was afraid that I had done something wrong. I called the American standard help line. They said to tighten until the "piers" on the back come into contact with the bowl. I didn't have enough nerve to tighten that much. I was afraid that I'd crack the bottom of the tank, but I did tighten enough that the tank is almost vertical. I've never had a leak between the tank and the bowl.
    About a year and a half later the flush valve seal( used instead of a
    flapper) began leaking water slowly into the bowl, causing unexpected filling in the middle of the night. I went over to Home Depot and picked up a replacement seal for around four dollars. It was a snap to replace. That's more of a maintenance item. I have not had any trouble with it in any way in the subsequent year and a half.
    Now, as for the performance.
    Pros:
    The elongated bowl and the "right height" (which is similar to the height of a kitchen chair) are a perfect combination for adults, especially larger, taller, or older adults.
    I had researched the flushing abilities of all of the models of the big brands before I made the purchase, so I was not surprised that it had a powerful flushing action. It was the only one I saw that could flush 1000 grams of material consistently. Some of the "standards" only
    require about half that much. It is absolutely amazing. I've seen
    low flows, three and one half gallon , and even five gallon flush models, but I've never seen any gravity toilet perform so well with respect to flushing action. It doesn't swirl. In an instant everything is just gone as if the bottom fell out of the bowl. American Standard says that you can throw away your plunger. I haven't thrown mine away, but it's somewhere in a storage shed away from ready access which would not have been the case prior to the Champion being in the house.
    Cons:
    The top of the lid isn't flat, so it's not the best place to put something like a box of tissues without first putting some kind of non-slip covering on the lid.
    The flushing mechanism is a little larger than others, so there's a
    little more resistance when you push down on the handle. As you push
    down hard, when the flush valve releases it seems to be sudden and there is an unexpected noise. It could be that the lever attached to the handle comes up so suddenly that it actually bangs the bottom of the tank lid with considerable force.
    The water level in the bowl is not as quite high as with most toilets which might contribute to slightly less than ideal bowl cleaning during the flush.
    Brass bolts and nuts to connect the bowl to floor were not included. No seat either. That may be typical of all manufacturers.
    Somewhat pricey. Would I purchase it again? Absolutely. I'd rather have a plumber install it, though, if I had the choice. Messing with that wax ring is nasty and is never confidence- inspiring. If you install any toilet there's a risk of making a mistake with that part of the job. A bad seal at the floor with the possibility of rotting floors is a reason to consider a pro.
    The Champion is worth much more than it's price because of it's
    reliable performance. LB

  7. #292
    Engineer maddog's Avatar
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    OK - time to pile on. After changing out the flush valve to the new and improved Champion 4 flush valve, I thought my troubles might be over. It's been working great for almost a year until recently - when I hear the Champion topping itself off. In less than a year, with soft water and no chemical hockey pucks in the tank, the seal has developed blisters that cause it to leak. I turned it over, but the other side blistered also. It took about 3 weeks to get a replacement from American Standard - of course the big box and local plumbing supply shops don't carry the seal. I was about to order some seals from Locke Plumbing when it finally showed up. I've read that the Cadet 3 flappers also blister. I hope Korky or someone starts making replacement seals soon, because the AS seals are crap.
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  8. #293
    Comments by readers Reader Review's Avatar
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    I purchased three American Standard Champion Toilets in 2004 as part of a house renovation project at our Richmond, Virginia home. The toilets were purchased through Lowe's Home Centers, Inc., 2501 Shheila lane, Richmond, at a cost of $248 each. They were installed by the contractor for our house addition. The toilets are 1.6-gallon per flush "water conserving" toilets, as mandated by federal law and federal regulations pertaining to energy conservation.
    My wife and I first noticed increasing water usage in 2007, and by Christmas
    2008 one toilet of the three started refilling and "running" constantly. I replaced rubber "o" rings with $3.oo parts from Lowe's, but this did not reduce the leakage. Shortly thereafter, the first of three flush tower units broke in half, and became inoperative. We now have two out of the three toilets in our house {$320,000 assessed value} inoperative. After the first tower broke, I went online to find what I could about replacement parts, and discovered a huge volume of consumer complaints about the Champion toilet line. In short, the product design was defective, and untested at the time of sale to consumers.
    I have written Lowe's Home Centers, Inc., as well as American Standard, requesting replacement of the toilets. Although we submitted warranty cards at the time the toilets were purchased, we have received no notices of product design defects. An American Standard Consumer Products Representative, contacted by telephone, acknowledged that the company was aware of the product design defects, and was offering replacement towers, to be installed by consumers at their expense. However, replacement towers were not immediately available because of consumer demand. I have waited for a month for replacement parts, with two of three toilets out of service.
    I am currently waiting to see whether either Lowe's or American Standard will honor either the express ten-year warranty against defects in the flusihing components of the Champion toilet, or will honor an implied warranty of fitness for the product. I have also written to the United States Federal Trade Commission, requesting that they consider requiring a recall of the Champion toilet line as in violation of federal standards, US CFR 305.16 et seq., which they are mandated to enforce under Section 304 of the Federal Energy Policy and Conservation Act.
    As I have received no responses in writing to my letters of April 9, 2009, I would caution consumers against any purchase of American Standard products.
    Charles Ware
    Richmond, Virginia

  9. #294
    Plunger/TurdPuncher kingsotall's Avatar
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    Best of luck to you with your endeavor.
    I just post cuz I like to see my avatar.

  10. #295
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    Phew... These Am. Std. customers are a happy lot arem't they?

  11. #296

    Default how old are these comments?

    The comments here seem to be from 2004 to 2006. My supply center tells me that AS has now solved these problems. Does anyone have any experience with the newer flush system.

  12. #297
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    The comments here seem to be from 2004 to 2006. My supply center tells me that AS has now solved these problems. Does anyone have any experience with the newer flush system.
    There are sixteen pages of comments.
    They did improve the flush valve, but if you read the most current comments, you will see that the "New" and improved flapper is developing blisters in the first year.

    But mainly what the plumbers don't like, is the shear bulk of the beast.
    That, and the sloppy way it's made, and the fact the A/S will ship broken lids and repaired bowls as if they were grade "A" new stuff.
    We are tired of being A/S assembly line checkers,
    Some of this stuff never should have left the factory.



    A factory chipped Champion tank lid. The chip had been discovered at the factory, so they sanded it a bit, and boxed it along with the tank. I guess "new" doesn't mean perfectly new.
    Last edited by Terry; 02-15-2014 at 03:03 PM.

  13. #298

    Smile American Standard (AS) Champion Model 4260

    I had installed three AS 2 piece 4260 Champions (vintage May 2005) in a new home. I was influenced to buy these units by a Home Depot demonstration of flushing numerous golf balls. Unknown to me was the characteristic of a "knocking" when flushed (how noisy and distracting). In addition, all three toilets during the past four years started to leak. I contacted AS about my dilemma. I was pleasantly surprised with the very quick service regarding three replacement flushing valves and seals of the Champion 4 type. Although I just installed, I was very pleased with the disappearance of the knocking and I am hopeful the flush valve leaking is now fixed. The new valve assembly was easy to install and certainly the new design looks much less complex.

    Last edited by Terry; 04-06-2011 at 03:14 PM.

  14. #299
    DIY Member micp879's Avatar
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    My family has had issues with the Champion in the past, so I don't often defend it. But it sounds like your problem has to do with the incoming supply line, not the toilet. If the problem is with the line, you could put any toilet in the world in there, and it still wont work. I would also go to the fluidmaster website, and follow the directions to flush out the fill valve. There may be some debris stuck in it, blocking water flow. Regarding the height of the flush valve, yes the one in the champion tank is elevated a few inches. Even if it wasn't, most low flow toilets only use a fraction of the tank water anyway. The added water height improves head pressure, which helps provide a stronger flush.

    Regarding the toilet in general, when everything is working right on the Champion and there are no defects, it is a very good flushing toilet. Unfortunately, American Standard's QC has slipped a bit, especially with the toilets you buy from big box stores. That often means defects and making return trips. That being said, the issues you mentioned dont sound like defects of the toilet.

  15. #300
    DIY Senior Member Andrew21's Avatar
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    I can't believe it..well, actually I can. I flushed the toilet the other day and the connector inside the tower came out. ARGHHHHHH so now I have no idea how to clip this back on. It looks like 2 black rocker clips but I don't know how this goes on. Any suggestions?

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