American Standard Champion toilet Review and comments. Rated #1 by Consumer Reports

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G40

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How to Hot-Wire Tower?

champion_repair.jpg


I've had more problems than we should for a year's use. All three in our new house have had problems. However, ours have a lifetime guarantee and AS has cheerfully replaced all parts for free. I have a new flush tower now that I replace parts out of. Besides that, if your spring goes, you can hot-wire the flush tower and get 3 gallons a flush.

I have two more bathrooms to go and I don't think we'll buy the Champion again...

-dayl

Can you explain to me how to hot-wire the tower. I recently got one of these toilets and I have had two drain clogs because the toilet is not sending enough water with the flush. I think it is because the plunger falls too quickly.

Thanks
 
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plumbtired

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It works!

I'm responding to several of these kinds of questions this evening...it must be Champion flush valve day...

Yes, the replacement flapper-style flush valve is definitely worth the fuss and bother of requesting it from American Standard and going through the pain-in-the-rear installation process. You definitely will be pleased with the results...no more leaking in between flushes, no more incomplete flushes, no more frustrations with your Champion toilet (hopefully!). I noted that after we changed out the two Champion toilets' flush valves, it was like we had brand new toilets...a world of difference!

Go for it!

One thing we discovered, however, was that the clevis pin hookup for the chain from flush valve to flush lever arm did not fit into the too-small holes in the flush lever arm. I simply removed the clevis pin from the new chain and re-installed the simple s-hook from the old chain to the new chain and to the flush lever arm...problem solved...and it works perfectly (even impressed my spousal unit, who did most of the work removing the old piston-style flush valve and installing the new flapper-style flush valve!).

I will add that you need to be very careful reinstalling the tank onto the bowl...make certain you use that deep socket and perform the alternating-sides tightening routine. I have read many complaints about leaking tanks but if you are careful, take your time, and seat the tank, gasket, and bowl tightly (not too or you'll break the ceramic!) and EVENLY, you will have 100% success. We learned the hard way...on our second Champion, we hurried...we were flush with success from the flush valve replacement of our first Champion, earlier that day. We tried to do the tank-to-bowl bit quickly...that is, we did NOT go from side-to-side after each series of 2-3 cranks on the ratchet. Oh, man...water ran out of the tank onto the floor at about 100 gallons a minute! Lesson learned...we started all over and did it the RIGHT way, the SECOND time, with success!
 
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Ed East Peoria IL

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I installed a American Standard Champion 16 1/2" about 2 years ago replacing a Kohler Wellworth 3 1/2 gallon, elongated bowl unit. The Kohler's only issue was letting paper not flush without a second flush. The Champion assembled ok, and has had a decent pressure flush. The misfire occurs occasionally. No leaks so far. This unit has a problem with not cleaning sticky waste from the back or around the sides of the bowl. Even below the water line, it is very inconsistant. This is a problem that I also see with toilets from other manufacturers that are low water volumn units. The combination of steep taper sides and back, low water level in the bowl, and a small volumn, short duration wash make this a time consuming and water wasting problem. The toilet usually needs to be flushed a second and third time and the sides brushed to remove the sticky waste. The nuisance value combined with the lack of water saving make these designs a serious case for higher water volumn flush toilets. Another issue I hear about is the lesser water flush does not move the waste out the lines effectively. Depending on where the toilet water drains relative to other sinks, showers, etc... that can be another potentially expensive repair if a router service is required to clear the matter from the sewer pipes. I have an old 5 Gal toilet in the house that has none of the "water saver" unit issues.
 

Fuzzyk31

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Not worthy to be a toilet

The new flush valve is a piece of you know what. I installed a couple of these toilets in August of 2007, and one owner put a toilet cleaner in the tank (One that hangs on the side of the tank) It ate away the gasket. The toilet was losing about an inch an hour through the flush valve every 20 minutes. It is the only toilet in the house. American Standard took almost two weeks to send the replacement part. They were trying to blame the cleaner. I explained to them that these products work on every other toilet, and maybe they should actually engineer the product to work with these items.
I could not find the replacement gasket to buy anywhere near me, and when I asked them to give me a list of places that carry replacement pars, customer service could not. They did remind me that there is a 10 year warranty, and I explained to them that the warranty is crap if it takes 2 weeks to get parts, plus they are not remiumbursing for labor. So you decide. Just let the people cleaning the toilets not to put any cleaners in the tank.
 

Redwood

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Here's a switch... I'll defend the champion for the first time.

I installed a couple of these toilets in August of 2007. The toilet was losing about an inch an hour through the flush valve every 20 minutes.

Okay I'm not clear on how bad the leak was...
An inch an hour
or,
an inch every 20 minutes?

One owner put a toilet cleaner in the tank (One that hangs on the side of the tank) It ate away the gasket. They were trying to blame the cleaner. I explained to them that these products work on every other toilet, and maybe they should actually engineer the product to work with these items.

Use of in tank bowl cleaners will void most manufacturers warrantees.
 

plumbtired

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Another chemist reports "argh" for toilet tank chemicals

I am also a chemist (see thread, "I'm Blue," for another chemist's comments on toilet tank chemicals). Why people buy that tank treatment "crap" off the shelves of the stores, I'll never understand. I guess it's the ole case of: "if it's on the store's shelf, it must be good"...

Anything with bleach or acid (or an alkali/base) is NOT good for plastics, rubber, or metal, much less for your hands. Over time, it hardens the plastic and rubber as well as deteriorates these compounds. These chemicals corrode and erode metal. And, can you imagine what that treated water does to the multitude of pets who drink from the "oasis"? I noticed that some manufacturers of those tank cleaning compounds even have the audacity to state the product is "safe for consumption." Scary, isn't it?

Redwood is correct: manufacturers will not honor the warranty on their products if you use these in-tank chemicals. No wonder...!

I cannot believe the manufacturers of these cleaning products still push them onto an unsuspecting public...but if the market is there, "sell it"!
 
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Dunbar Plumbing

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The reason they're used so much is because certain types are very effective in their use of saving the hardship of hard scouring the bowl of rust stains or the periodic cleaning done without.


The products we knock are the products that employ us. And here on the internet, we shame the use of them!

As you see, people ignore correct advice when it comes to sweating the small stuff.


If plumbers told the public to over use toilet paper, use chlorine tablets, jam the garbage disposal tight, pitch tampons in the toilet........



they'd do the opposite and stop.


I don't want them to stop. Keep it up! I love being able to make in 15 minutes what it took you 13 hours to earn!


Okay I'm off my rocker.

Time for my meds. index.png
 

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We had four of these toilets installed when we remodeled in Spring 2004, and four years later are getting ready to replace all of them.
They have leaked, flushed improperly, constant running water, etc. We tried getting replacement parts from American Standard, but they never solved the problems. After this experience, I will never purchase another product from this company.
T. Brown, 11 March 2008

 
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I purchased 3 AS Champion toilets for our new home. Within a few months the periodic flushing began. First with one then all three. Upon discovery I found all 3 red seals to have a small "bump" approx 1/4" x 1/4" on the edge of the 3 seals. Thinking they might be defective, I purchased 3 seals at Home Depot for almost $6 each. Fine for a month then problems recurred with same result. More red seals, more leaks. Finally after 3 each seal replacements I contacted American Standard. They said I had the "old"
models and they would ship the replacement tank parts complete for all 3 toilets which they did. Fortunately I was able to act as the plumber here which saved us huge sums of money but if I weren't able I shudder to think how much more we would have had to spend on each and every call.
Everything was fine for the first 7 months then, voila! Then the "new"
green seal developed a 1/4" x 1/4" bump near the edge just like the red seals!! Two calls to AS Customer Service with a direct request to talk to a qualified, ranking design engineer resulted in several rebuffs and finally a call back several days later by someone identifying themself as a design engineer.
Our story is this. My wife is a regional/national accounts manager for GE's water treatment. We are on a well and because of this paid for a 150 point water test in a nearby state's lab. The results were used to design a whole house system by GE engineers for our home as we are a Beta site for water testing for GE.
The AS "engineer" upon learning of this said it must be our water quality causing the bumps not the Champion design. He sent 2 vials for us to fill up with water for AS to "test".
After reading numerous blogs of disatisfied customers, I trust AS does the right thing and responds very quickly to our concerns "in the field" as the Champion falls far, far short of quality claims.
D Srygley
Delaware

 
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We purchased a Champion Elongated Toilet in Dec 2004. It has started the " running" I have seen posted.
I found all your comments and was very concerned. I called American Standard gave them the model number and they are sending replacement parts. They said there is a 10 year warranty and if I have any
further problem to call and give them the reference number and there is a file and any other problems within the warranty they would resolve.

Maybe if you haven't called American Standard 1-800-442-1902......you might try if you still have warranty on your purchase.
 

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I installed the American Standard toilet in 2006 and less then a year later the gasket that ships with the toilet for the flapper was leaking so the toilet would drain a little then refill frequently.

To solve this I went to a hardware store (plug: Casper True Value Lake Zurich, IL - great place), I had some time to kill so I asked for some advice. Basically I bought a "make your own" rubber gasket 1/8" thick and cut it to the same size.
 
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Alextheone

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The Toilet Saga Model 4260 AS

I am sad. :(
I wished so very hard I knew about this evil toilet, so I could have
hit my husband over the head and brought a Kohler, like the one I
chose for upstairs. I am sorry one person thinks these attacks are
on Americans, but buddy, the top and the tank are stamped with Made in Mexico. Now maybe that is where Americans work now, but all I know is this toilet is an evil water running machine that has become the bain of my exsistance. No wonder when I first went to the AS website, they were so pleasant to look at...but no mention that the Champ was the evil toilet that is evil. I am sorry people...I just :eek: at the thing.
 

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American Standard evidently realized that the engineering on the original Champion – Flush Tower was not perfect. They have since replaced the original Champion flush tower system with the new and improved Champion 4 flush system. The Champion 4 flush system works even better than the original with none of the problems.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][/FONT]
Original Champion toilets can be retrofitted with the new Champion 4 flush system and enjoy a problem free product. Call American Standard customer service for more information (Ph 800-442-1902). There is also a video showing how to replace the old flush tower with the new Champion 4 flush kit at http://plumberprotects.com/flushology_champion.htm .

John Reiss
 

Redwood

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I have 2 words for you...
Think Toto!

Those Am. Std. Toilets are Junk!
The chumpian after 4 redesigns still has a wobbling tank and a patch on the back of the trapway that leaks on many of them.

The Cadet 3 has some quality control issues as well!

champion_patch.jpg
 
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GAW

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One year later, Eljer valve still flushing strong!

...I found a link where they replaced the Champion flush tower with the flush valve/flapper from an Eljer Titan:

http://unitelater.com/s9y/index.php?/archives/167-American-Standard,-the-Final-Solution.html

has any one else done this? It scares me a bit that the tank opening on the Champion is 1/4 inch larger than the Titan - sounds like a possible leak spot. I like the idea of replacing the flush tower (if it eventually becomes a problem) with a flapper/flush valve...

I'm the guy that put the Eljer flush valve in the Champion. That was over a year ago, and I am happy to report that I have never had a leak, and get a perfect flush every time. Since I am able to modulate the length of the flush, I get complete removal of residuals on the first flush.

If you still have the old style flush tower (I pity you if that is the case) then HURRY and get the Eljer flush valve- now only $12.00 at Locke Plumbing! No leaks, no running toilet, and no double flushing... it will be the best $12 you ever spent!
 

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Thanks for the update GAW. I already called American Standard and they sent me the replacement flush valve - just haven't gotten around to installing it yet. Still no problems with the original flush tower, except for the 'clunk' ..... -dog
 

Maddog

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Finally got around to replacing the flush tower with the replacement flush valve sent by American Standard. The new flush value works great. Very powerful flush and good bowl wash. I would recommend that anyone having problems with the original Champion flush tower, to call AS and request the new flush valve. It came with new tank bolts, seals, and a new spud gasket.

old flush valve (hose clip already removed), new flush valve, got it tight (no tank wobble), but not too tight... I took my time and slowly tightened the tank bolts, a little on each side. It took less than an hour to replace. -dog

before.jpg
after.jpg
after2.jpg
 
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Does anyone know if there has been a recall on the American Standard low water toilet. Mine was just installed and broke & I noticed alot of comments on the msg brd about these. Thought I'd ask before I call American Standard. The stupid thing is costing a fortune bc it doesn't stop running.

Dok
 

Redwood

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There should be if Am. Std. had 1 ounce of decency!
But there is a class action lawsuit in the works...
Check back several pages in this thread!
 

Maddog

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Not sure what the 'American Standard low water toilet' is. This thread deals with the American Standard Champion model. If you're not sure what model you have, lift up the tank lid and see if you have the white flush tower in my previous post. If you do have the Champion tank, call American Standard and they will send you a new re-designed flush valve that works much better than the original, problematic flush tower. They won't pay to have it installed by a plumber, but it's not too difficult to replace if you have a ratchet set with deep sockets (you'll need a 1/2 inch socket for the tank bolts). They will send you the new flush valve, seals, tank bolts, and the tank/bowl gasket as well as a large plastic wrench that makes it easy to remove the original flush tower.

Good luck ... -dog.
 
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