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Thread: American Standard Champion toilet Review and comments. Rated #1 by Consumer Reports

  1. #346
    DIY Junior Member dpete3's Avatar
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    What a pile of junk this toilet has been. That damn seal leaks shortly after being replaced. I didn't know this was a problem with AS design until I stumbled on this forum. Like everyone else on here the tank never seated onto the toilet, I was afraid to tighten it any more for fear of breaking it. I stuffed a rolled up hun k of cardboard behind the tank to give it some support, Great way of having to fix things. I just contacted AS to see what they will do about the old style valve that I have. I have also filled out the information on the pending class action lawsuit. I'm building a new house and rest assured there will be NO AS products in it at all.

  2. #347
    DIY Junior Member ImpliedConsent's Avatar
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    Installed the new flush valve today. Went in as expected, no issues. The flushing system sounds better (no more "broken clunk" feel). I'll be able to put it to the test after my 2 cups of coffee tomorrow morning.

    BTW, that tank seats just right on the toilet. It's not fully seated until the front and rear ribs touch. Don't use a screwdriver on the screw in the tank, use a 1/2" long socket from underneath.


    **EDIT** - put the Champ through the real world paces this morning. It's still "The Champ" and does what's intended.
    Last edited by ImpliedConsent; 11-15-2010 at 06:15 PM. Reason: ...it's the next day...:D

  3. #348
    Comments by readers Reader Review's Avatar
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    We have four American Standard Champion toilets purchased and user installed in 2004. We've had three flush valve problems with the single one-piece toilet, one involving a seal leak and two involving broken parts. I called American Standard. They sent the new grey replacement flush valves for all four of our Champion toilets free of charge. I installed the replacement flush valve for the one-piece toilet which was easy since replacement does not require removing the tank. For the remaining three toilets that have model 4260 tanks, tank removal will be needed. I will do that one-by-one as the other toilets develop flush valve issues. The new flush valves get rid of the "clunk" issue during flushes. The blue seals for the new flush valves are considerably thicker than the red seals for the old flush valve assemblies. I am hoping that American Standard gets the message that parts such as seals for the new flush valves should be made available at Lowe's and The Home Depot.

    Regards,

    Allan R
    Cumming, GA

  4. #349
    DIY Junior Member slchoat's Avatar
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    Red face New Parts Installed

    We had the new parts that Champion mailed to us yesterday, works fine now, also my grandson's father that installed this part advised that Walmarts has the exact same parts they are Universal and work. He said that they just cost $7.00.

  5. #350
    Comments by readers Reader Review's Avatar
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    Do Not Buy an American Standard Champion Toilet!! The flush valve is poorly designed and leaks. American Standard's Customer Service will lie to you and tell you that very few people have complained about the toilet, yet they have a system for sending out new seals (which only work for a couple of weeks).
    Bad company!!
    Rchas

  6. #351
    DIY Junior Member RBrown's Avatar
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    I just had to replace the gasket on my Champion (with a new style flush valve). I purchased a Korky red gasket from Lowe's for about $5 and fixed it my self. I had blisters on my blue AS gasket like everyone else which caused the tank to keep topping itself off as Dog says. I like my Champion. It is comfortable and flushes well, but it hasn't been dependable.

  7. #352
    DIY Junior Member polecat702's Avatar
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    I installed the new flush valve and noticed a plastic insert thats coming apart in the base where the tank connects to the base. Is this piece supposed to be in there, or should it have been removed, when the toilet was installed? Looking at my reciept we've had this thing sence 2003, and it's never worked as all the hype. Now with the new flush valve it's worse than before.

  8. #353
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    I installed the new flush valve and noticed a plastic insert thats coming apart in the base where the tank connects to the base. Is this piece supposed to be in there, or should it have been removed, when the toilet was installed? Looking at my reciept we've had this thing se
    nce 2003, and it's never worked as all the hype. Now with the new flush valve it's worse than before.

    The plastic insert is supposed to be in there.

    The first Champion I installed had that too. I've always wondered when that thin plastic was going to start disintegrating when you started to introduce chlorinated water.

    1. To become reduced to components, fragments, or particles.
    Last edited by Terry; 02-15-2014 at 02:59 PM.

  9. #354
    DIY Junior Member montreal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Swart View Post
    .............. As far as the chlorine cleaning "pucks", it is a well documented fact that chlorine eat rubber parts and should not be used in any toilet tank regardless of brand. Those of use that use a chlorinated water supply experience part failures more often that those who use non chlorinated water, but not as fast as those using concentrated tablets or "pucks". Perhaps there could be a composite material used for tank parts, but it would undoubtedly increase the cost of toilets.
    Thanks Gary for your comment.

    I guess AS can't make your message any clearer, on the top of the FluidMaster fill valve is engraved a warning against using chlorine bleach cleaners in the tank.

    I used those pucks for about 10 years in my old Cadet without any leaks or malfunctions.

    And when my recent toxic gas attack occurred in the dried out Cadet tank, it was the plastic fill valve casing which took the hit much harder than the other plastic and rubber parts.

    In any case, I accept that these pucks do indeed erode the tank components.

    Too bad, since as a bowl cleaning aid, they work marvelously.

    After nearly 3 weeks of use, my new Champion 4 one piece is holding up. Occasionally need to flush twice for solid matter, but that's the only drawback noted so far.

  10. #355
    DIY Junior Member Scott9393's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewThePlumber View Post
    Just wanted to see if anyone else has had a problem with the tank bolts on a Champion toilet. We installed a customers toilets (Champion 4's) and the rubber washers under the tank bolts are so soft they squeezed out and loosened themselves to the point of leaking. And they are steel bolts which is bad. It came from HD I think. I suggested TOTO which is what I use.
    I have an American Standard Champion toilet (tank 4260, from 2004) and it is leaking from one of the tank-to-bowl bolts. Cannot find any details on what to use for a replacement washer for the bolt (or complete bolt/washer/nut). Home Depot was no help - the Fluidmaster tank-to-bowl bolt kits do not indicate any compatibility with any toilet makes/models/etc. The existing bolt or nut is rusting (steel?!!) so I'm concerned about tightening it and having it completely fail. Any suggestions?

  11. #356
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    The official AS complete tank to bowl set including the big gasket for the flush valve: 738756-0070A, but it sucks that you would have to pay $14 when only one washer is bad. However, the repair parts diagram only shows this kit; nothing seems to come separately.

    That said, I seem to recall a plumber on here saying that he tosses the AS tank to bowl set because it sucks and installs the toilet with a good Wolverine Brass tank-to-bowl set. You can't buy that, but it suggests that a good-quality brass tank-to-bowl set would work. If you get the official parts online, that's certainly easy, but I would consult a plumbing supply place about a good solid tank-to-bowl set that would fit this toilet (preferably a double-nut setup where you attach the bolt to the tank with one nut and the assembly to the base with another. [ E.g. in tank goes bolt head and rubber washer, on other side of tank goes metal washer and nut, then insert same into hole in base, and attach rubber washer, metal washer and second nut.]_Of course, if I recall, the crappy design of this toilet makes the nut very hard to access, so you may need to be sure that you have a long socket that will fit the nut.

    Sorry can't be more help. I'm sure one of the pros will have more ideas.
    Last edited by Terry; 11-14-2012 at 08:39 AM.

  12. #357
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Use any brass or SS tank bolt set. Plain or plated steel will rust and eventually leak.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  13. #358
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Thanks, Jim, for the definitive answer. I think he probably doesn't want one with the wing-nuts, though, right, because of the exceptionally-deep recess where the bolts tie through the base; need something you can get a deep socket on. Maybe something like the Lasco 04-3675, which has solid brass bolts and washers, and heavy rubber washers. Scott9393, just google that and you'll see what we're talking about. Unfortunately, I didn't see anything of quality at the HD web site; it's all galvanized or just brass-plated or has those wing nuts that probably won't work for you.

    Also, some tips if you haven't done this before: (1) when you have the tank off, take some fine sandpaper and lightly sand the inside of the tank next to the bolt holes and even a little into the bolt holes. This will give you a nice smooth surface for the rubber washer to seal against [if you look at Jamie Love's primer on how to install a toilet, he does this on every installation]; (2) when you remount the tank, getting it stable and solid requires patience; the proper way to do it (and sometimes to redo it a few times until it's right) is to mount the tank and hold it exactly level and square with one hand (or have a helper do that), while you twist a couple of turns on one bolt, then the other bolt, then the first bolt, then the other bolt, back and forth really slowly, until you see the tank make the contact described in the instructions (which you can find here: Champion Installation Instructions ) Everyone tells you not to overtighten. What this means is don't tighten once you see the tank make contact; it should simultaneously contact the mounting ribs shown in the diagram; if it's tilted, then release a little, straighten, and tighten again. Once china hits china, stop. Jim recommends putting a piece of paper in there and when the tank squeezes the paper, stop. But don't freak out if you're tightening and it takes a long time for the contact to be made; seems like lots of DIY-ers give up too soon and then complain about tank wobble. You haven't "overtightened" until china has contacted china, but you don't want to tighten after any china contact has been made. That said, be vigilant for the tank to touch one rib before the other -- you don't want to be watching one spot and crack it because another spot has made contact; it takes some care to get it all to touch about the same time. (3) When you're doing a double-nut installation, once again, it goes: rubber washer under bolt head inside of tank (NO metal washer in there; causes leaks), then metal washer and nut on outside of tank, then place tank on bowl, then under bowl goes rubber washer, metal washer and second nut.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by wjcandee; 08-18-2012 at 08:18 PM.

  14. #359
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    Incredibly, the American standard 3 flo-wise production is moved or moving back to the USA. Good on them.

    So would anyone that gets one tell us if the quality has gone up?

    http://www.americanstandard-us.com/p...s/made-in-usa/

  15. #360
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Maybe not so good on them. As I noted in a different thread, the only thing AS moved back to the US was the absolute minimum number of models necessary to be able to keep getting government contracts with stimulus money. Totally self-serving and hypocritical. Note that: (1) the only color made in the US is White, which is what the gov't contracts call for; (2) they're only making the toilet that public works projects want: the Cadet and the flushometer bowl, and a couple of gov't-suitable sinks; (3) they still sell the exact same thing without the US in the model number, hecho en Mexico, along with ALL the non-white Cadet 3s; (4) the trim and guts are all made elsewhere and only the china is made in the USA, etc.

    It's waving the flag and suggesting that they are making more here than they do. They are only making as much here as is necessary to meet the domestic-contents requirements of the Stimulus Bill. When those funds get spent, almost assuredly this US manufacturing will cease. Every little bit helps, but frankly I think it's evil for them to suggest that they are doing this for any reason other than that they are being forced to, so that they don't lose the business to Toto, which, ironically, makes a broader line of products in the US. (Ever go to the bathroom at the busiest airport in the world (Atlanta)? Guess whose domestically-made toilets and urinals are in every renovated section.)
    Last edited by wjcandee; 08-20-2012 at 01:15 PM.

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