So I purchased the Champion 4 from HD; it shows a 2010 model date. It flushes well. I purchased it based on CR recommendations. I’m not a Plumber. I’ve experienced some of the same issues as prior postings; specifically the tank to bowl connection. No leaks or wobble, but
1) The tank will not sit flush to the back ribs. The front ribs have made contact. I can’t tighten any more without applying significant torque
2) The diagram for the gasket at the AS website is nothing like the gasket that comes with the toilet. There is no “tapered end”
I don't understand the conflicts with how it was designed to sit and the actual install. It seems contradictory that both the front and back should contact the ribs, but don't over tighten. How do you know when it’s over tightened? When you have 1.6 gallons of water on the floor?
i've got a newer version purchased in 08-09ish. first gasket blistered, i installed AS blue replacement and worked for about a year then started leaking. i replaced it with the one at lowes and in a short time (3 weeks) it started leaking. visual inspection showed no defects in the blue on or the red one. tearing my few that remain hairs out. i'm curious if the red o-ring on the black screw thingy can be a culprit.....
Purchased an American Standard Champion 4 series toilet from Home Depot approx. one year ago. It has been leaking for over a month. I went to Home Depot for parts – mistake. They do not stock parts and recommended a local Plumbing supply that was supposed to carry American Standard. They did not. I have tried to tie the part number down and have finally lowered myself to guessing by comparing pictures to the valve assembly. Have not been able to find service department at American Standard. Whether this valve works or not the next step will be to remove and replace the toilet. I am totally over American Standard.
There's a 10-year warranty on the Champion. Call American Standard and they will send you the replacement seal and/or flush valve.
Well, I can finally add to this list of complaints with the Champion 4 toilet. I had to see it for myself first hand what's so awful about these toilets and so off to do the unthinkable and buy one I did. Ordered it from a local plumbing supply house picked it up 3 weeks later, got it home took the bowl out of the box and found the bowl with a terrible defect...it leaned over severely to the left. For whatever reason that possessed me I still installed the thing and then realized it looked even worse in it's location then when I got it out of the box.
Ended up driving me crazy and I ripped it out a day later and traded it for a Cadet 3 at the supply house, which for your money is a FAR better value over this so called "Champion", the difference between the Cadet 3 and Champion 4 is almost unbelievable.
What kind of company makes there cheaper toilet the better one. (I knew this all along but wanted to try the Champion out anyway)
for 250 dollars the Drake sure is the best bang for your buck (I knew this all along too, but wanted to see first hand how awful the "competitor" really was), that and I was getting bored of the perfect no maintenance impeccable quality of the two Drakes in our house.
Anyway, I've got some pictures here to show just how bad this thing leaned over, and the porcelain wasn't that great of quality either...
Last edited by Terry; 04-11-2011 at 02:28 PM.
Now would you expect a professional plumber to install a bowl that was leaning like that in your home?
How much time do you suppose you wasted going back and exchanging the bowl. I don't know what you do for a living, but can you imagine telling your boss that you just wasted four hours exchanging something, so the entire morning was lost? How much money can a plumber bill for in four hours? And all of this because nobody is checking the products before they are being shipped out?
And you wonder why plumbers are pleading with their customers to buy something pre-inspected at the factory. I sell all the brands, including Kohler and American Standard, Gerber and Caroma, but of all of them, you should have stuck with Toto.
Thanks for the pictures and the story. Now you know we aren't making this stuff up. It happens.
I knew all along that nobody was making this up. When I test toilets I like to test more then just one brand, so that's why I don't just stick with Toto, but for any person looking for a done right the first time toilet, Toto NO DOUBT.
AS, (pronounced ass) should be ashamed of themselves. We have spent more than our share of Saturdays trying to fix the messed up sliding gripper inside the flush valve. It constantly comes undone. Apparently there is a newly redesigned flush valve available for 26 dollars. The last plumber cost $225. for his unsuccessful visit. We're going to try this. Normally, we just reach in the tank and pull up the tower to flush. When guests come, I hate having to give them the embarrassing tutorial! =
That would be just perfect if you have a sloping floor! Provided the floor slopes the right way...Maybe they make these in "rights" and "lefts"?
All kidding aside, that's unbelievably bad. I've had great luck with my Champion 4 but after seeing that, I don't know that I'd buy another one.
Damn that looks like a leaning tower of poop!
Every time I see a bunch of new replies on this thread it reminds me of why I stopped supplying Am Std products to my customers back in the day of the Champion I...
I knew I couldn't afford Am Std's Quality Control.... Or, lack thereof...
My advice is DO NOT BUY THIS TOILET! Here's why:
In 2009 I remodeled/updated a couple of bathrooms in my home and decided to replace all of the toilets (so they would match). The original toilets that were installed in 1994 were Briggs, and they never flushed well. This time I wanted toilets that would not choke on a piece of toilet paper, so fell for Champion's claim that the Champion 4 could flush a bucket of golf balls. I bought three Champion 4 toilets model #4266 and installed them. So far, I haven't noticed any problems with the the toilets that were installed in the master bathroom or the downstairs bathroom, BUT the toilet installed in the MAIN upstairs bathroom has leaked almost constantly from the day it was installed. The water in the tank leaks out to a point near the top of the gray/green tower. So, I assume the water is slowly leaking at the seal or at the chain attachment at the top of the flush tower...
I did register the toilets with American Standard after purchasing them, so when I noticed the toilet leaking I called customer service and they sent me out a new seal. I replaced the seal and the toilet kept losing water. It's been so long ago that I don't remember all of the details, but at one point it seemed that water was leaking out of the black plug at the top of the tower where the chain attaches. I called customer service again, and they didn't have a solution for that. So I installed a washer around the plug and thought that helped for a while, but it has basically leaked from the day it was installed.
Since there are 2 other toilets here, I have resorted to turning the water off and on at the shut off valve to keep from wasting so much water (water/sewer costs are very high in my city!). About a month ago I called AS customer service again and told them it was STILL leaking. They sent out a new flush tower which I had the pleasure of installing about a week ago. Besides the constant leaking, the toilet is designed with a porcelain lip that hangs down along the sides of the base which makes it very difficult to access the nuts on the tank bolts. You can't see or find the bolts without lying down on your back on the floor and becoming some sort of contortionist. I have to thank the MORON for his lack of intelligence in coming up with this terrible design (It must have taken all of 2 brain cells....).
Anyhow, I was hopeful that this would fix the problem but I wanted to test it out. So after installing it, I allowed the tank to fill and then I turned off the water valve so it couldn't refill. Over night, the water level dropped to the top of the tower again; at the level of the gasket. How disappointing! Once again, I have to wonder what MORON designed this horrible toilet, and what MORON at American Standard approved the design? After reading about so many other people who have had the same problems, it seems criminal for AS to be able to continue selling this junk!
So yesterday I called customer service AGAIN to complain about the continual leaking. This time I was told that they would send me a new tank with new innards already installed. BUT, before they would send me the new tank, I would have to send them a copy of my original receipt, a photo of the toilet and a photo of the inside of the tank! So I spent approximately 14 hours digging through files yesterday with no luck. Then this morning I finally found one and emailed the "PROOF" of purchase and leaking to customer service so that I can eventually get a replacement tank. I can't help but wonder if they think I STOLE this piece of junk and WHY they were previously willing to send me the gaskets and the flush tower without the receipt and photos, but now they want proof of the purchase and photos of their stupid toilet? It seems to me that they were hoping I didn't have the receipt so that they could deny coverage under the warranty. I guess they don't know who they are dealing with...(someone who is obsessive about keeping receipts & booklets for just about everything purchased, and especially things that have a warranty. He, he, he).
When I spoke with the man at customer service yesterday, I asked him; "What if the toilet continues to leak after I install the new tank with new innards"? He said that the odds of me receiving another bad tank/innards would be "astronomically" rare and that if it leaks, the problem would have to be with the installation!!?? What a bunch of BS! I also asked him if the leaking was a major problem with this toilet. He said they have had problems with some of the older seals, but that the new seals and/or tower should have fixed the problem. Huh. I'm thinking that response is the company line...
Well, I tell you what, I have absolutely NO CONFIDENCE that a new tank with new innards will stop the leaking. I am convinced (after reading other posts here) that the toilet design is DEFECTIVE and that AS just won't fess up to the problem. I think that while I am waiting for the new tank to arrive, I will begin shopping for a Toto toilet. Maybe I can put this toilet on Craigslist and get a few bucks off this one, but I hate to pass the problem on to someone else. (Well, maybe it wouldn't be a big deal for someone who had a flat water/sewer rate). It sure seems to me that there should be a CLASS ACTION SUIT against American Standard for their defective Champion 4 toilet!
I'll try to give an update after I get the new tank installed and have had a chance to test it for leaks.
Because I, and some other people at various forums have been wondering if there is an active AS Champion class action suit, I started searching the web. I haven't found a recent class action lawsuit but found one that was denied on Sept. 23, 2010. There is some interesting information in the lawsuit like; Champion knew that there were leaking problems with their original Champion toilets and they did not disclose the problems to the public, rather they relied on customers to complain to customer service for replacement parts. The newer tower design (gray & green) was an attempt to fix the problems they had with the original tower. And, if you go to the bottom of page 15 of the court document, it says that it is it's (AS) practice to REIMBURSE plumbing costs and/or water costs IF THE CUSTOMER REQUESTS IT. So my next step will be to email AS customer service with my request for reimbursement costs to have a plumber install the new tank and for excess water/sewer charges I have incurred since 2009. Within the court document, it lists the gallons per day wasted by the Champion toilet so I will use that figure to determine gallons wasted and my estimated excess water/sewer charges caused by the defective toilet.
Here is a link to the court document: http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal...pdf?1285319810
Can I get some pro opions on the American Standard Champion 4?