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Thread: American Standard Champion 4 toilet review and pictures

  1. #31
    DIY Junior Member needatoilet's Avatar
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    Default How to check date?

    A recent post said to make some Champions being sold are not most current version and recommended checking box for manufacture date. I was at a big bos store today and tried to do that, but could not find a date on the box. Can anyone tell me where to look for the manufacture date?

  2. #32
    Comments by readers Reader Review's Avatar
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    Default American Standard Champion headed to the dump

    I'm tired of replacing seals on the 4" flapper. To the dump this American Standard Champion 4 goes.
    Way too much trouble with leaking flappers.

    This time I'm going with a toilet made in the USA, a TOTO Ultramax.

    A new American Standard Champion headed to the recycle dump.

    Frustrated homeowner.
    Seattle WA
    Last edited by Terry; 01-23-2010 at 08:19 AM.

  3. #33
    DIY Junior Member Elton Noway's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by needatoilet View Post
    A recent post said to make some Champions being sold are not most current version and recommended checking box for manufacture date. I was at a big box store today and tried to do that, but could not find a date on the box. Can anyone tell me where to look for the manufacture date?
    Purchased mine from Home Depot. Look for something that looks like a packing or shipping label. It will not be any part of the fluff / colorful advertising labels as those are printed in mass.



    Then look for any small print that resembles dthe date and/or time. Be aware the date time format may differ. (e.g. 25OCT09 6:04PM or maybe 102509 18:04 )


  4. #34
    Engineer maddog's Avatar
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    Default

    Picked up one of these at Lowe's today. I'm willing to bet it lasts a lot longer than the American Standard blue pos seal. The original blue seal blistered and leaked in about a year - and no chlorine tablets in the tank ....
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  5. #35
    Master Plumber Dunbar Plumbing's Avatar
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    Default

    The red ones are "supposed" to be chemical resistant. I just tell customers to wait around 6 months, tell them it's leaking and get them ahead of time so they have it ready to go when they do blister.

    You can also flip those seals over to get more time out of them. In the same fashion they used to do to faucet seat washers.
    Read what the end of this sentence means.

  6. #36
    DIY Junior Member Geobrick's Avatar
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    Default A Review of the "Champion 4" along with a Fix to the Poor Bowl Fill Problem

    First I'll cover the bowl fill problem resolution.

    I discovered this fix while discussing this issue in a separate thread started by “larrymcg” but I think it will help more people here.

    If you have a Champion 4 toilet and you think the bowl is not filling completely after a flush, check for one of these inside the fill tube.



    It’s a flow restrictor and it was inside the rubber fill tube where it connects to the fill valve. It was hidden about a half inch inside the tube so you might not see it. Try squeezing the tube to see if it’s there. Removing the restrictor corrected the bowl fill problem in my Champion 4.

    Before I start the review, I want to say that I really wanted a Toto based on all the positive reviews here and I would have bought one too if I could get one "off the shelf" locally at a plumbing supply place (Note: It turns out I could have – see more later). I found a few plumbing supply showrooms where I could order a Toto and get it in a few days (or weeks depending on color) but the show rooms didn’t stock anything. So I took a chance with a Champion 4.

    Now my initial review of the Champion 4.
    I bought the champion 4 elongated “Right Height” at Lowes about 2 weeks ago (late January 2010).

    The packaging used for these is terrible. Look for a sealed box then open and inspect it at the store before you buy or at least before you leave the parking lot.

    The first thing I noticed was that the inside of the trap seemed rough. I was as if it was not glazed properly but that wasn’t the case. It was just some substance that had to be cleaned off. The glaze was fine. This was not how it should have been sold and I could easily see someone rejecting it or returning it based on that crud on the surface in the trap. After it was cleaned off, the glaze in the trap seemed fine. Maybe it was remnants of some polish they didn’t remove. As Terry consistently says, their quality control and workmanship are lacking.

    The elongated “Right Height” bowl is very big and you’re going to need all of the 12” rough-in space for it to fit. If you’re rough-in is any smaller than 12”, you may not get it to fit.

    It does take some fineness to attach the tank to the bowl and avoid the “tank wobble” that many complained about. You must tighten the bolts, alternating sides, until the tank hits the tabs on the bowl. In my case, the front tabs contacted first but that's not tight enough. As you continue to tighten, the tank will then start to level itself out as it begins to come in contact with the back tabs. Don’t tighten it any more than that. Does it seem like you’re going to crack the tank or bowl? Yes it does. Will it crack? It shouldn’t unless you tighten it beyond the point where the tabs make contact.

    The included seat is flimsy and makes the overall feel of this toilet feel cheap even though the toilet itself has a very solid feel. Other than the flimsy feel, the seat works fine but I’m going to replace it with something better soon.

    Adding to the cheap feel, is the chrome plated plastic flush lever. Not only is the handle plastic, but the actual lever is too. This results in a slightly springy feel to the flush because the plastic lever bends as you push the handle down. Eventually there is enough force to pull the flapper up. I don’t like the feel. I could live with it but I replaced it with a metal version I got online for about $16 (it’s the one AS sells for the original champion). I like the feel much better but obviously there’s no real performance benefit. By the way, the flush demonstration video on the American Standard website is misleading. It shows the inside of the tank during a flush and clearly shows the lever as being metal.

    In my opinion, if a company wants to impress consumers, all the components that we have direct interaction with on a daily basis (Seat, Flush handle etc) should be designed to look and feel substantial. This is not the case with the Champion 4. I’d pay more if they offered better parts. Maybe they cheapen the ones that they sell at Lowes and Home Depot.

    Speaking of Lowes and Home Depot, their part numbers for what seems to be an identical Champion 4 Toilet kit are different. At Lowes the part number is “2793.000.020” which I can’t find on the AS website. At Home Depot, the part number is “2586.000.020” which I can find on the AS website. I’ve looked closely at both in the stores and can’t see any difference at all. Does anyone here know why there are different part numbers?

    Results: There's no doubt that it has a powerful flush. Everything seems to be working very well. But…

    I don’t like the “Right Height” ADA size. I don’t know why this is such a big trend but I don’t like it. So, I moved it to my son’s bathroom (where it replaced a clog prone Mansfield installed by the builder 10 years ago).

    Since I knew I wanted a standard height toilet and would have to order it whether it was a TOTO or a Champion 4, I decided to get the Ultramax in Sedona Beige because I thought the master bath deserved a more stylish one piece in off white. I decided to checkout one last Plumbing Supply Showroom near where I work that was listed on Toto's website. They had several Toto’s in stock including an Ultramax in Sedona Beige! I would have preferred the Eco-Ultramax because of the water rebates being offered but there were none in stock and the order would have taken 3 to 4 weeks.

    The Toto Ultramax is everything people here say it is. The Toto workmanship is amazing. The included seat is far better than the included seat on the Champion (though it does make creaking sounds). Here’s something surprising, a Toto Ultramax is much less expensive than the 1-piece Champion 4 (which doesn’t even include a seat).

    I hope to report back on their performance after a year or so to see how they both hold up.
    Last edited by Geobrick; 02-08-2010 at 12:12 AM.

  7. #37
    DIY Junior Member rexles's Avatar
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    Default Plastic substance in toilet trap

    I had a customer today who called me back for the second time because of a plugged toilet. A/S Champion 4 installed 1/10 by another Plumber. First time I was there I pulled back a plastic substance with my auger. It was in 2 pieces and had at one time fit together and was aboput 6' long. Customer said they were sure they had not dropped it in toilet. It seemed to kind of be conformed to the shape of the trap in toilet.
    Today as I went back with the same problem. I pulled out another piece of plastic also conformed to the trap as it makes its last turn to go out the bottom.
    Is this something A/S used in the making of the toilet that never came out during the process? Is it something to make the vitrious on the inside of the trap smooth to give the better flush
    Anybody ever had this problem before?
    I am pretty sure I could not get a straight answer from anybody in A/S customer service.

  8. #38
    DIY Junior Member thdang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddog View Post
    Picked up one of these at Lowe's today. I'm willing to bet it lasts a lot longer than the American Standard blue pos seal. The original blue seal blistered and leaked in about a year - and no chlorine tablets in the tank ....
    No, not really! I bought that seal also at Lowe's for about 5 bucks and it worked good for only 3 days. Now, off and on, water still leaks at shorter interval time and lower rate. Maybe it will get worse later. Please help if you have a better way to fix this chronic problem. Thanks.

  9. #39
    Engineer maddog's Avatar
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    Hmmm - a couple of things to try. Examine the seal carefully to make sure there are no cuts, nicks or dents. Make sure the seal is installed correctly and maybe try turning the seal over to see if the other side seals correctly. After installing this seal (and replacing the original garbage flush tower), the Champion has been a very reliable and strong-flushing toilet. Still no clogs and no more leaks. -dog

  10. #40
    Comments by readers Reader Review's Avatar
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    notice all of your reviews for the champion 4 toilets are 2005 or older. I work in a Major Home Improvement Box store and have sold over 90 of these Champion 4 toilets this year. I have had none returned and no complaints. You web page review is out of date.

    Thank You
    J/C

    You must mean the old page from the old wwwboard.
    Those are for the original Champion
    http://www.terrylove.com/wwwboard/messages2/42893.html

    Last edited by Terry; 02-15-2014 at 02:35 PM.

  11. #41
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    Default Champion review, 8/11/2010 by Ken in New York

    I pruchased two American Standard toilets within the past year. I assumed as new Champion toilets Model N0 4266 and had them installed. I assumed since they were both new toilets they would work with no problems. They flushed well and I did not check to see if they leaked through the flush valve. Recently I put food coloring in the tank since we wre using more water than expected. They both leaked through the flush valve. American Standard sent me two new gaskets. I replaced the gaskets and then recently checked with food coloring for leaks. One still leaked very slowly.

    I am concerned that a continual slow lead will erode a grove in the system that can not be fixed with a new gasket.
    Ken in New York

  12. #42
    DIY Junior Member turbocruiser's Avatar
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    I too purchased this same toilet recently (05/2010) and have had zero problems thus far but after reading all the posts throughout just this one thread I sorta got spooked. The two big box stores that sell these locally both raved about them and their reliability and performance and even the local plumbing supply place (staffed by pros and shopped by pros) recommended them. I still need to purchase the replacement toilet for the downstairs back bathroom and was going to go with the Champion 4 again. Can someone with experience and expertise please advise me about the toilet that is already installed (keep it or return it), whether to get the same Champion 4 again, and whether anyone's really had problems with the redesigned toilet. Thanks So Much.
    Last edited by Terry; 02-15-2014 at 02:34 PM.

  13. #43
    DIY Junior Member turbocruiser's Avatar
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    Well to get the two sides to the story, I called AS yesterday and asked about the Champion 4. The person that I talked with seemed aware of all the problems the Champion 4 has had (pre 2007 models) but also seemed completely confident that the redesign (post 2007 models) fixed all the assorted concerns (flush gaskets leaking, tank-to-base gaskets leaking, etc.).

    Additionally they told me that the bolts between the tank and the base do really require tightening to marry up the two surfaces. They said to simply tighten side to side equally in small steps until the surfaces touch.

    Lastly, while the tech was completely confident in the redesign they were also very assuring that while nothing will likely happen, if I ever have any toilet trouble, they are there to provide the parts, give guidance, etc.

    At least from that call my concerns were somewhat soothed but the there are tons of threads out there both criticizing and praising the Champion 4 and it is often hard to tell the toilet the person is talking about.

    My preference is still to match the upstairs toilet with the downstairs toilet but before I take the plunge again I needed to know as much as possible from the folks here. If I have to mis-match to get a problem free toilet I will but it so far seems that the post 2007 Champion 4's corrected the concerns that came from the pre 2007 Champion 4's? Again any advice here is most appreciated. Thanks.

  14. #44
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    Default 9/10/2010

    I bought three of these in 2009 and they are, without question, the best toilets I've ever used. They NEVER clog and flush better than my old 6 gallon toilets ever did. I do have to replace a valve seal now because one of them has started running, but AS is sending it right out. I also had one leak between the tank and the bowl, but that was due to overtightening. The installation is tricky because they don't exactly seat naturally, you have to be carefully to even it out. A torque wrench would probably not be a bad idea. But once it's set up, it's fantastic. AS did tell me that if it's running, one interim fix you can try while waiting for a new seal, is to turn the old one upside down. I'm about to try that on mine.
     
    Craig Buck

  15. #45
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    Default 9/26/2010

    I had the toilet installed in march 2009 and have had to have 2 valves installed but it now is leaking bad again, my suggestion is to stay away from the Champion4. R Craven 9/2010


    Made in Mexico

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