(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 117

Thread: American Standard Champion 4 toilet review and pictures

  1. #91
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,428

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by big2bird View Post
    What would be an equal with proven quality?
    It's obvious you haven't read lots on this site! People, myself included, like Toto products (the largest toilet maker in the world with a factory in Georgia, USA). The Toto Drake is a nice toilet at a decent price comparable to the Champion. There are lots others with different style which could be a good choice if it fits your design.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  2. #92
    DIY Junior Member GCK4444's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    California
    Posts
    5

    Default AMERICAN STANDARD toilets (CHAMPION 4, CADET 3 and ETC.)

    DON'T buy any AMERICAN STANDARD toilets (CHAMPION 4, CADET 3 and ETC.) that uses the cheaply made 3" flush valve that's made by WDI in China. Its seal bubbles up and flat rubber piece is warped because they use cheap rubber materials. WDI lies to American Standard all the time (I have people that are working for WDI said they DO NOT trust their own products). I wonder why American Standard switched to FluidMaster now.

  3. #93
    DIY Junior Member 4thGenerationPlumber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    11

    Default

    We use mostly Kohler at our shop. I'm not a big fan of the AmStan products currently.
    Last edited by 4thGenerationPlumber; 12-28-2012 at 05:44 AM.

  4. #94
    Brand New Plumber GoKohlerGo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    65

    Default

    I have used a Champion 4 and quite frankly, I don't think it is all that bad. I have flushed a lot of toilet paper down it and it performs quite well. I know that 80% of the claims why people don't like them was because of the old flush tower. With the new accelerator flush valve it does not leak. And believe me, I have put it to the test. I flushed about 50 feet of TP down and it just ate it like it was nothing. I am getting one for my outside testing in the summer.

  5. #95

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GoKohlerGo View Post
    I have used a Champion 4 and quite frankly, I don't think it is all that bad. I have flushed a lot of toilet paper down it and it performs quite well. I know that 80% of the claims why people don't like them was because of the old flush tower. With the new accelerator flush valve it does not leak. And believe me, I have put it to the test. I flushed about 50 feet of TP down and it just ate it like it was nothing. I am getting one for my outside testing in the summer.
    Flushing was never the issue with the Champion. Originally it was the flush tower as you mentioned. Now it's the quality of the Vitreous China! They send out all kinds of defective bowls with all kinds of weird stuff going on, like severe bowl lean (this happened to me, never attempting to get a Champion 4 to test again!), the design of the bowl makes it overly heavy, and clunky to handle during installation. The tank and seat bolts are nearly impossible to get to. Because of the giant tank to bowl gasket it requires nearly busting the tank to get it close to touching the bowl.

    For less then the price of a Champion 4 I suggest getting your hands on a Gerber Avalanche, Toto Drake, A-S Cadet Pro, or Kohler Wellworth (not the Wellworth Classic at the big box)

  6. #96
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,428

    Default

    The material the testing agencies us is plastic wrapped paste, fairly short, and not too big in diameter. The real stuff comes in lots more sizes and consistencies. So, what gets great scores on the tests has little to do with reality. The quality of the design and EXECUTION then comes into play as to how well it works overall. AS has not had the QA/QC in line with Toto, and in some areas, their design is not as good. Do they work? Certainly. Do they work for everyone, no toilet does. Do they have compromises? Certainly, all of them are compromised in some area or the other. Who has made 'better' decisions on products and execution, I think Toto has. Will you be dissatisfied with an AS product, many people aren't, some are. Your results will vary. For often a similar price, my bet is on Toto for a more reliable product that performs well (street price, not retail).
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  7. #97
    IBEW Electrician big2bird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Anaheim, Ca.
    Posts
    141

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GoKohlerGo View Post
    Ok, but does ANYONE here recommend it? Does anyone recommend ANYTHING other than TOTO? I like the Champion and in the summer I will try to put it in it's place and clog it with washcloths, paper towels, toilet paper, etc. Videos of it flushing will be coming in the summer on my youtube page. P.S: here is a video of an older champion I found. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzq_PPpFOxQ
    I have had mine 3 months or so. No issues here, and a good price on sale at HD.

  8. #98
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Bothell, Washington
    Posts
    14,208
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Nobody has said it doesn't flush.
    They may have said things like
    poor casting or finish,
    heavy and bulky,
    Takes up space
    Hard to find parts

    But does it move water? Nobody on this thread as said it doesn't. At least not the new 4.
    The original had a problem with the cam wearing in and not dropping enough water, but that contraption has been changed out.

    You can get the same performance in a smaller package, the Cadet 3
    Most plumbers would prefer installing a Cadet 3 over the Champion.

  9. #99
    DIY Junior Member newfydog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Bend,Oregon
    Posts
    1

    Default

    We built a house a couple of years ago and installed three Champion fours(new tower ). One leaked from the beginning, and the plumber fixed it. The other two recently started a steady drip/refill. leaking at the flush valve. I replaced the blue seal with the red Corky seal from HD, but they still just drip drip drip. A can't figure out for the life of me why they drip----the seal and valve seat all look good.

    Are these toilets haunted? Will American Std. replace whatever it is which needs replacing?

  10. #100
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    1,595

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by newfydog View Post
    We built a house a couple of years ago and installed three Champion fours(new tower ). One leaked from the beginning, and the plumber fixed it. The other two recently started a steady drip/refill. leaking at the flush valve. I replaced the blue seal with the red Corky seal from HD, but they still just drip drip drip. A can't figure out for the life of me why they drip----the seal and valve seat all look good.

    Are these toilets haunted? Will American Std. replace whatever it is which needs replacing?
    There seems to be a little bit of a trick to getting the original and/or the Korky seals to work in the Accelerator. A number of folks here have found that the Korky seal works perfectly the first time; others have proposed stacking the seals, making sure they are perfectly-aligned, checking the chain to make sure it pulls straight-up, etc.

    If I had one of these beasts, I would probably call Korky and double-check whether the 5030BP Adjustable 3" Flush Valve and Flapper works with the Champion 4. I might even see if they'd send me one if I would review its installation ease and effectiveness on the Champion 4, as it is a new product. Installing it would require pulling the tank, which I have done a bunch of times so it's no big deal to me, but it's not as easy as replacing a fill valve. Then you would have a nice standard Korky 3" flapper controlling the water exit from your Champion tank.

    If the thing is designed to fit the Champ, I personally would rather have a nice, straightforward 3" flapper instead of the doofy "Accelerator". (The Champion "4" has a 3" flush hole, if that wasn't clear...)

  11. #101
    Brand New Plumber GoKohlerGo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    65

    Talking Champion 4 Round

    Ok, I have just ordered a Champion4 (ordered because there is not an HD or lowes within 100 miles of me)
    Round bowl standard height. I will get it tomorrow. I will post a video on my YouTube page about it. I am pretty confident that I will like it, and I am just saying that I don't like TOTO much, but I like Kohler and American Standard. I have a Cadet 3 and I like it, so with the Champion with an even bigger trapway and flush valve I am sure I will like it. Like I said, in the summer I will try to clog it with wash cloths, paper towels, toilet paper, etc.

  12. #102

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GoKohlerGo View Post
    Ok, I have just ordered a Champion4 (ordered because there is not an HD or lowes within 100 miles of me)
    Round bowl standard height. I will get it tomorrow. I will post a video on my YouTube page about it. I am pretty confident that I will like it, and I am just saying that I don't like TOTO much, but I like Kohler and American Standard. I have a Cadet 3 and I like it, so with the Champion with an even bigger trapway and flush valve I am sure I will like it. Like I said, in the summer I will try to clog it with wash cloths, paper towels, toilet paper, etc.
    Hope you don't get a leaner! That was the issue with the one I had. It flushed very good though.

  13. #103
    DIY Junior Member ttabbal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    2

    Default

    I'm curious if anyone has tried the Champion Pro and if so, have they improved on any of the common complaints?

    I'm pretty well convinced to go with the Toto Drake 2, but ran into that one and thought it might have solved some of the issues. It kind of looks like they added their version of Sanigloss and a bowl wash setup, which the Drake 2 already has at a similar price. I'm leaning toward the Drake as it seems to be more reliable overall from reports here and elsewhere and the 4" valve from AS is custom, so parts are harder to get if you need them, and it sounds like you will. It also seems a little like the race to have more blades on a razor, mostly marketing. I know the crew here is more into Toto (sounds like there are good reasons), but the information might be useful for others searching for data on the Pro model. All I can really find is marketing stuff from AS. The Google is not with me today, it seems. Or people just don't buy them, not a good sign.
    Last edited by Terry; 02-15-2014 at 02:21 PM.

  14. #104
    Brand New Plumber GoKohlerGo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    65

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by ttabbal View Post
    I'm curious if anyone has tried the Champion Pro and if so, have they improved on any of the common complaints?

    I'm pretty well convinced to go with the Toto Drake 2, but ran into that one and thought it might have solved some of the issues. It kind of looks like they added their version of Sanigloss and a bowl wash setup, which the Drake 2 already has at a similar price. I'm leaning toward the Drake as it seems to be more reliable overall from reports here and elsewhere and the 4" valve from AS is custom, so parts are harder to get if you need them, and it sounds like you will. It also seems a little like the race to have more blades on a razor, mostly marketing. I know the crew here is more into Toto (sounds like there are good reasons), but the information might be useful for others searching for data on the Pro model. All I can really find is marketing stuff from AS. The Google is not with me today, it seems. Or people just don't buy them, not a good sign.


    Thanks to everyone here for the great info already available on this site.
    The Champion Pro is not the same as the champion 4, so the complaints probably aren't the same. Plus, they started making them back in early-mid 2012. It will have the 4" flush valve, and it probably won't wear out for a few years. I had an American Standard toilet from the 1980's and it still had the original flapper when we replaced it this year. If you are looking for a bigger trapway, go for the Champion Pro. It also has a better bowl wash than the Champion 4 so it is better. If you are looking for the best bowl wash you can get, go for the Drake II. Even though the Champion Pro and the Drake II have about equal bowl wash, I feel that the Drake II has just a touch better. Hope this helps!
    Last edited by Terry; 02-15-2014 at 02:22 PM.

  15. #105
    DIY Junior Member ttabbal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GoKohlerGo View Post
    The Champion Pro is not the same as the champion 4, so the complaints probably aren't the same. Plus, they started making them back in early-mid 2012. It will have the 4" flush valve, and it probably won't wear out for a few years. I had an American Standard toilet from the 1980's and it still had the original flapper when we replaced it this year. If you are looking for a bigger trapway, go for the Champion Pro. It also has a better bowl wash than the Champion 4 so it is better. If you are looking for the best bowl wash you can get, go for the Drake II. Even though the Champion Pro and the Drake II have about equal bowl wash, I feel that the Drake II has just a touch better. Hope this helps!
    Thanks for the info. It's very helpful. I'm glad I found such a good source of information in this forum.

    It seems like the trapway size, like most things, will have a point of diminishing returns. Are we hitting that at the sizes available today? Just wondering if it's really helpful in the real world to go bigger past the Drake. The difference is pretty small.....

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 360
    Last Post: 02-15-2014, 12:08 PM
  2. American Standard Cadet Evolution Toilet, Pictures
    By Terry in forum Toilet Forum discussions
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-06-2013, 05:34 PM
  3. American Standard Champion toilet Review and comments. Rated #1 by Consumer Reports
    By Reader Review in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 424
    Last Post: 09-10-2011, 11:09 AM
  4. American Standard Champion toilet
    By rhliberman in forum Toilet Forum discussions
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 06-19-2008, 08:41 PM
  5. Toto Drake, Dalton and American Standard Champion Real World Review
    By jluksic in forum Toilet Forum discussions
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-15-2006, 11:44 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •