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Ten days is plenty of time to get a Toto Drake locally or through another channel. You're doing everything else right, why knowingly and intentionally buy something lousy from Lowe's or HD? Look at the guy above's experience. In the end he got a Drake and loves it. Really, seriously. Get the Drake. CST744S for the elongated at 1.6gpf. CST744E for the elongated at 1.28gpf.
Here's the spec sheet: http://www.totousa.com/Portals/0/Pro...CST744S_SG.pdf
Need something shorter? Look at the Toto Ultramax MS854114S [for 1.6gpf elongated] MS854114E [for 1.28gpf elongated](27.125") for example.
There are two issues with the Champion. First, challenging quality control and apparently-knowing sale of defective products to people through HD and Lowe's in the hope that they won't return it after it has been taken home and/or installed. To me, that's the big issue.
Second, some second-rate parts. As I have noted elsewhere above and in this forum, you probably want to chuck the tank-to-bowl set and replace it with a quality one, but don't get one with wing nuts because of the deep, inconvenient recess in which those nuts mount. Then you want the Korky flush-valve seal (450BP or 450BPK) in a drawer somewhere for when the flush-valve seal bubbles up and fails.
One thought is to get the better toilet and put it in yourself rather than get the worse toilet and pay someone to put it in. But that's assuming that you're comfortable doing so and can safely lift the items, etc.
Good luck.
Last edited by wjcandee; 10-14-2012 at 11:00 AM.
ok I will seriously consider getting the Toto Ultramax since it will work well with the short height requirements we have.
Eventually if I do go with the Champion, which brand and model/type of tank-to-bowl set is recommended?
Also I will not be installing the toilet myself (even if its Toto), will first have flooring guys try to put it, and if they cannot will get a plumber.
Not many folks on this forum will recommend any AS toilet product. Surely you have seen how many negative comments on them have been posted on this thread! As far as having the flooring guys install the toilet, that's a real crap shoot, no pun intended. The new flooring will likely recess the existing flange which can require thicker wax rings or other methods to compensate the space. A flange is supposed to rest on top of and be anchored to the finished floor. These guys may know there stuff on flooring, but we find many times where toilets have developed leaks from improper installation on remodel jobs. It's your choice, but can you explain why you would elect to go with a toilet that is by all accounts of lesser quality for essentially the same price? This is something that should remain in use for many years to come.
As far as tank-to-bowl, you want something of the quality of something like the Lasco 04-3675, which you can google. Maybe not this expensive, but the bottom line is you want it to be nice heavy solid brass or stainless steel, with two nuts and two of each kind of washer for each bolt. I did not see a single set at Lowe's or HD that met this requirement of quality. Then you install it as follows: rubber washer under bolt head on inside of tank, metal washer and nut on the outside of tank; then insert bolt into bowl and on the far side put rubber washer, metal washer and nut. Don't get wing nuts for the under-bowl nuts because they won't fit in the deep recess in this toilet design.
Last edited by wjcandee; 10-14-2012 at 02:20 PM.
I can't understand why WJ would recommend some off brand product over the Toto Ultramax! It just doesn't make sense whatsoever. The Ultramax is a proven winner and will come complete with everything necessary for a perfect install. Sorry WJ, but I truly believe you are off base on this one.
Gary: WJ was just responding to my request for info on Champion. He recommended the Ultramax which I have shortlisted and will be contacting local distributors tomorrow.
Thanks for the warnings on having flooring guys put up the toilets. Will have a plumber come by since we need to get shower and faucets put in as well.
Originally Posted by Gary Swart
Sorry for the confusion. The tank-to-bowl hardware that comes with the Totos is fine, and the Ultramax won't need any since it's a one-piece. I should have made clearer that I was answering the question about getting better hardware for the Champion if he went that route.
Acinchus Apexstar: Do call around to several distributors. A new member in Austin called one company that is listed on the Toto web site and was quoted a price for a Drake that was fully $100 more than the price he obtained from another Austin distributor. I assume that things will be similar near you. Also, just be wary that the Ultramax II, as opposed to the Ultramax, will be taller than you want.
Last edited by wjcandee; 10-14-2012 at 09:08 PM.
WJ, my apologies for misunderstanding your message. I did think it strange coming from you. Glad it got cleared up before creating a problem.
Gary, no problem! You were right based on your understanding of my message -- it would have been a momentary lapse of reason on my part!
I have decided to go with the Toto Drake (white elongated bowl and tank).
Lowest quote I got is $220 + tax. WJ, thanks for the tip on calling around, quotes did vary quite a bit
Is a slow close seat worth the premium ($50) vs regular seat ($16)?
My pleasure! I'm always happy when my help is helpful.
The seat thing is a personal preference. Do you like plastic or wood? Wood is too hard for some. Do you want a seat that fits the outlines of the toilet perfectly, is exactly the same color, and is gonna last?
That's really the issue. Also, there's an intermediate step -- something like the Mayfair 148E2, which is wood, elongated, slow-close with lift-off hinges. That's what we have on our Drakes, in between those price points. Our family likes the extra-firm wood thing, and we very much like the slow-close action, and we like the fact that it's easy to take off the seat to clean and snap back on, and that in-between, the attachment is so firm it isn't going to slide around at all. We do note, though, that others have said that the seat is firmer than they like.
We also have a new-ish Toto that came with the Toto slow-close plastic seat, and it is a winner. Sturdy, comfortable, well-made, heavy-gauge plastic. Fits the toilet perfectly around the edges, matches the color perfectly, mounts securely, etc. Very nice to sit on. I might have sprung for it on the other toilets if I had had a chance to try it out before buying the Drakes.
In short, I think you'll be glad to have spent a couple extra bucks on a better seat than the $16 one; where you go after that is very much personal preference.
I should also share Terry's position, expressed in an exchange with me, is that the slow-close is the hands-down winner, and I can't disagree that it's a great seat!
Last edited by wjcandee; 10-16-2012 at 03:56 PM.
The slow-close seat is one of the world's greatest inventions.
Well, maybe not, but it is nice. Only problem is you get used to having it, and you use a toilet in someone else's house and forget that not everyone has a slow-close seat. Wham!
Query: Will the Drake meet your height requirements? I forgot about those...
Yes with the standard height seating the tank is 28.5in from the ground (vs comfort height at 30.x in), so should fit the requirements.
I have the 2 Drakes on hold to be purchased on Monday and thanks to the suggestions I will go with the slow close seats. Any other words of wisdom, for a first timer like me who is having the toilets replaced?
Sounds like we have covered the bases! Are you having someone do the install or do you need some help walking through a DIY installation? If the latter, have a look at the sticky at the top of the toilet thread, and let me know because I have a few other pointers. How exciting! I know you're going to love them!
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