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Thread: American Standard Champion 4 toilet review and pictures

  1. #76

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    Just wanted to see if anyone else has had a problem with the tank bolts on a Champion toilet. We installed a customers toilets (Champion 4's) and the rubber washers under the tank bolts are so soft they squeezed out and loosened themselves to the point of leaking. And they are steel bolts which is bad. It came from HD I think. I suggested TOTO which is what I use.

  2. #77
    DIY Junior Member jstewart's Avatar
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    Default Problems with AS #4266

    I wish I had found this forum before I purchased the AS Champion toilet. Having the same problems as others describe: Leaking flush vlave.
    Have not contacted customre service yet... trying to decide if a remedy is worth the trouble, or just go get the Toto that is so highly rated in this forum.

  3. #78
    Comments by readers Reader Review's Avatar
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    We had this installed in 2009 and it was fine for a couple of years,then it started to leak at the seal. Four inches is a lot of area for a flat seal to handle and it had blisters forming on it. I instaled a new Korky brand seal sold at the home depot and it seems to be working fine now. You do not want to over tight'en the seal tho. I tight'ened it till i heard one click from the black screw that holds it together. You can listen and see if you can hear any dripping and twik it from there if you have to. It's very touchy. Good luck.

    Lynn L

  4. #79
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Most reviews I have seen of the Korky seal indicate that it works well and appears to last longer than the AS original (no blisters). A guy posted here on another thread with a picture of his blistered AS blue seal after six months, and said that he had installed the Korky seal two years ago as a replacement and that it was still working fine.

  5. #80

    Default Yep, bought a Champion BEFORE seeing this thread!

    Went to Home Depot and fell for the golf balls advertising. Got a AS Champion 4. It was marked down to $150 from $218. Store said that someone had bought it assuming it was elongated and it was round (in the wrong box). They returned it without the box.
    It looked to be brand new. In the process of installing it tomorrow.

    Got this to replace a cheaper AS with the same 1.6 gpf. The main problem with the old one is it doesn't work. It never flushed properly, even after multiple flushes. The water just swirled around. Have plunged it many times. Has always been weak at flushing. Poked the holes around the rim. Replaced the water line. Still the same result. Yeah, I know I never learn.

    Question is, knowing what everyone knows, what would you recommend me getting as extra parts for this new Champion 4 toilet as future parts that could/will break down?
    I'm thinking that eventually AS will go out of business. Want to have extra parts to be able to fix without looking all over when/if that happens.

  6. #81
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    There's nothing special about the fill valve on the Champion 4; you could replace it with any number of valves, including a Korky 528MP available at Lowe's, so don't sweat that.

    The flush valve is another story, although I'm thinking it realistically will be around for a while. The thing that goes bad on the Champion is the seal in the complicated flush valve, and Korky makes a replacement seal that's probably better than the original. It's model 450BP (or BPK at Lowe's). Maybe keep one of those on hand. I don't think any of the other hardware is irreplaceable or non-substitutable, as far as I can remember.

    You'll probably want to trash that thing before any of the other hardware needs replacing. For the non-discounted price, you could have bought a Toto Drake and not have had to worry about this stuff, but live and learn. Once you get it running, and assuming that it doesn't wobble or leak, doesn't have defects, etc., it ought to work.
    Last edited by wjcandee; 09-30-2012 at 08:35 PM.

  7. #82

    Default Well, what do you know!!!

    Well, I was told...

    Went to put in the AS Champion 4 today and noticed it had been patched in two places underneath with some kind of white stuff that didn't match the toilet. Also had some residual wax underneath where the original people who bought it had actually tried to install it looks like.
    After seeing this, I took it outside onto our walkway and put a little water in the bowl, waited several minutes, and looked underneath. Sure enough, it was leaking water in two places underneath where the patchwork was.
    Back to Home Depot it goes!!! Good thing I had not taken out the old one yet (an AS), even though it doesn't work.

    I have learned my lesson. Going to get a Toto Drake.
    Any suggestions for a good value on one in the Austin area?

    By the way, we have very hard water (an old well) so wondering about the Drake if it uses parts that don't break down or rust.
    Would it still be a good idea to get a brass or SS tank bolt set, or does the Drake come with one already?

  8. #83
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    KIVA Kitchen and Bath is a dealer in Austin. You may have to hondle with them a bit. You can also look around on here to see where folks have bought their toilets.

    I think you'll be okay with the Toto parts... But you need your own wax and closet bolts and seat.

  9. #84

    Post Need list of replacement parts to install NEW Champion 4 and have leak free install

    We need to replace toilets in our 19-20 yr old home and in the one bathroom we have a platform running above the tank, so can go with only 28 inch height. We are getting floor tile work done in the bath room in 10 days and want to replace toilets then, so our choices are to go with models available at HD or Lowes, and besides couple of less rated Kohler models (Wellworth, Santa Rosa) the only model that seems to meet our criteria is the AS Champion 4.

    But after reading the leaking valve problems in other sites and then on this forum, I need to build confidence in decision to go with Champion 4.

    So the main question: Is it possible to get a long (5-10yrs) leak free install with Champion 4?

    I am willing to spend a little more in getting replacement parts vs using OEM part.
    Need a recommended list of parts I should get in advance of our floor install based on the experiences folks have had.
    I will be getting a plumber to get this installation as right as possible.

  10. #85
    In the Trades Gary Swart's Avatar
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    Not many folks on this forum will recommend any AS toilet product. Surely you have seen how many negative comments on them have been posted on this thread! As far as having the flooring guys install the toilet, that's a real crap shoot, no pun intended. The new flooring will likely recess the existing flange which can require thicker wax rings or other methods to compensate the space. A flange is supposed to rest on top of and be anchored to the finished floor. These guys may know there stuff on flooring, but we find many times where toilets have developed leaks from improper installation on remodel jobs. It's your choice, but can you explain why you would elect to go with a toilet that is by all accounts of lesser quality for essentially the same price? This is something that should remain in use for many years to come.

  11. #86
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    As far as tank-to-bowl, you want something of the quality of something like the Lasco 04-3675, which you can google. Maybe not this expensive, but the bottom line is you want it to be nice heavy solid brass or stainless steel, with two nuts and two of each kind of washer for each bolt. I did not see a single set at Lowe's or HD that met this requirement of quality. Then you install it as follows: rubber washer under bolt head on inside of tank, metal washer and nut on the outside of tank; then insert bolt into bowl and on the far side put rubber washer, metal washer and nut. Don't get wing nuts for the under-bowl nuts because they won't fit in the deep recess in this toilet design.
    Last edited by wjcandee; 10-14-2012 at 02:20 PM.

  12. #87
    IBEW Electrician big2bird's Avatar
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    I just bought a Champ 4 at HD, and after reading this thread, I am considering returning it. Without reading all of this thread, what is the latest suggestion? Are the issues resolved, or is the AS Champ a POS?

  13. #88
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    There's a tutorial on installing toilets here on the website. Check that out.

    But, basically, the toilet must NOT rock once set down - it may need shims. The toilet flange is designed to sit on TOP of the FINISHED floor, and be anchored through it into the subflooring. Many end up below or even with the floor, but that takes special actions - thicker or stacked wax rings, to ensure it creates a good seal. Always use a new supply hose, and if the old shutoff is a multi-turn one, replace it with a quarter-turn ball valve.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  14. #89
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big2bird View Post
    I just bought a Champ 4 at HD, and after reading this thread, I am considering returning it. Without reading all of this thread, what is the latest suggestion? Are the issues resolved, or is the AS Champ a POS?
    The design is okay, and if you get a good one, it is a viable product. I prefer others that you don't have to check as closely and have a better chance of getting a defect free one (defects include both cosmetic and structural).
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  15. #90
    IBEW Electrician big2bird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    I prefer others that you don't have to check as closely and have a better chance of getting a defect free one (defects include both cosmetic and structural).
    What would be an equal with proven quality?

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