American Standard Champion toilet Review and comments. Rated #1 by Consumer Reports

[Flushed in Bloomington]

Two problems in two months: 1) Plastic catch/spring mechanism that raises flush valve broke 2) Red seal does not seal and resulting slow leak causes toilet to refill several times a day

Details:
Bought American Standard Champion Round Bowl toilet in Sept 2005 from Loews. Used their recommended plumber firm to install it.

Plumber told me it was a great toilet, but warned me that American Standard toilets Lowes purchased were made a little cheaper than their toilets purchased by plumbing supply houses. He went on to say that plumbing supply Champion toilets have a "blue seal" and Lowes' Champion's have a "red seal" and customers had complained that red seal didn't seal.

Didn't really put much weight in what he said and was just glad to have a toilet that worked well and flushed. Two months later the plastic spring mechanism broke and toilet would not flush at all!!!

Called American Standard and was told by a nice woman rep that my mechanism could not be fixed, but they would send me a new flush valve assembly. One problem it would take 6 WEEKS!!!

She also assured me that plumber was wrong because all American Standard toilets regardless of where they are sold are manufactured to same exact standards.

I had inlaws visiting the next week, so I "fixed" what could not be fixed by tediously attaching the cap to flush rod with small copper wire. I didn't use the spring at all. (This will only make sense if you examine the mechanism). Fix wasn't perfect because it would sometimes catch and not close flush valve, but a simple jiggle of the handle would release it.

When new flush valve assembly arrived I installed it only to find that the red seal on the new assembly would not seal the toilet. The old one may have not sealed either and I may just not have noticed.

Called American Standard again and they immediately shipped a new seal. I just installed it and I don't see that it is any different than old one. Will let you know if it still leaks. I happen to be out of food coloring to do a dye test.

In the meantime, I decided to do a search for "American Standard Champion complaints leak" and found this site and lo and behold I am not the only one with this problem. In fact there are so many of us that have this problem I am ready for a class action suit.

Grading the best toilets, the ones that work!

[Reader Review]

I purchased a Champion a month ago and had the same leaking gasket problem I have seen reported here. I examined the orange gasket of the flush valve and found that it was not seated correctly in the plastic slot. I seated it with my fingers and the leaking went away and has not reappeared. My problem at this point is that the chain pops of every few flushes. That is the answer I am seeking that lead me to find this web site. Other than the chain popping off, I am quite happy with the toilet so far.
S. Laughlin

[Reader Review]

Yep. Me too.
- I can live with the clunk.

- I fixed the "leaking flush seal" problem (AS sent revised seal out post hasteum) and it is not even worth a call to the local handyman, let alone the plumber. I fixed mine in less than 5 minutes and that includes my Nosey Rosy lookin' around time too. No tools required!

-The bowl "rinse" though, is just that - a RINSE. Even with soft water, after just 4 months a bowl ring started to form. My wife is a very fastidious house keeper and even scrubbing at least twice a week (aside from daily "touch ups") didn't prevent this! I think there's a double whammy that causes this:
#1) Not enough water surface area (Terry talks about this in his LFT article) so there's often artwork left after the flush. As a result, some of the minerals (everything's made of minerals, remember?) drift down into and/or are left in the water after a not so complete flush (water looks clean, no scuba divers, etc.). Whola - bowl ring! BTW, our water softness has been checked and is at the high end of the scale for purity/softness.
I think the water-surface position, shape, and areas need a good going over by engineering. This problem is (IMHO) at least partly a bowl design flaw.
Two work-arounds that help some are first - the ol' courtesy flush, and second - leave the newspapers, magazines, crossword puzzles (86-Down is FLUSH), cell phone(!) and PDA in another room!! Allows less drying time (you know what I mean).... Besides, sitting can lead to blood clots in the legs, 'roids and other nasty stuff; ask your MD!

#2) (no pun intended..) Too much bowl "rinse" velocity. Looks to me like the "rinse" water is just cruzin' over the stuff. With older "traditional" designs, the rinse water from the rim jets is slower resulting in longer contact with any offending material (taking into account that non-LFT toilets do take longer to refill of course). Hence, the "rinse" lasts longer and the debris has more "water contact time" allowing it to absorb more and dissolve or release more easily. I'm not an engineer, but it looks kinda' like washing bird ***** off your car - High pressure, high velocity nozzle gets rid of the big chunks, but wetting it with a mist or spray first allows it to soften so it's easier to remove by scrubbing or THEN the high pressure nozzle.

American Standard is off to a good albeit shaky start, but I think the rinse velocity, and bowl metrics need work before they call this a "Champion". And, YES Virginia, you can choke this horse - half a roll of heavy single-ply will do it (hey, I had to find out - right?). The clog was however easily "moved along" with only the help of the always handy scrub brush. I'm not a plumber or an engineer, I just have way too much free time.......................................


Peace,
Bob in AZ

[Reader Review]

I've had more problems than we should for a year's use. All three in our new house have had problems. However, ours have a lifetime guarantee and AS has cheerfully replaced all parts for free. I have a new flush tower now that I replace parts out of. Besides that, if your spring goes, you can hot-wire the flush tower and get 3 gallons a flush.

I have two more bathrooms to go and I don't think we'll buy the Champion again...

-dayl

[Reader Review]

I have the same nightmare as everyone else, can't find a flush valve seal unless you contact A S. I have a TOTO toilet in my high traffic area of the house and it is older than the Champion I purchased for my son's bathroom and have NO problems whatsoever. Will NOT purchase another A S product in the future. Screw A S! ********* should pull this crap off the shelves and tell A S to go F---- themselves. When I want a part, I expect it to be on the shelve at ********* and not have to play telephone tag with the manufacturer. Wish I had found your site sooner. M. Harrison 4/9/06

[Reader Review]

I, too, bought the Champion toilet. I, too, now have the dual problems of leaky seal and you can't flush too fast or it skips the flush. I have to go into the tank and reseat the seal after every flush. Why is this toilet still on the market?

Thanks.
Matthew

[Reader Review]

Terry,

Seems I should read consumer reports on any purchase. I have learned the hard way, I guess. I assumed Home Depot would not be selling this great sounding Champion American Standard 2 piece toilet if it would not work properly for years. The 10 year warranty made it sound perfect for our bathroom remodeling project. The old Sears one had been there since 1980 or so. (I guess it was not so bad after all?? )

I like everyone else suddenly have water leaking into the bowl from the tank due to the flush seal not staying seated. It did work for abt 6 months before the problem developed. I hope to be able to get a couple of new seals from AS when I call them Monday. Of course it was Friday evening I discovered the constant running of the toilet and I cannot get help from AS support until Monday. Bummer. I hate it that NO PARTS are available locally to fix this problem. You would think something so simple as a little seal could be found in the correct size !! Somewhere, some hardware store, you know?? We have only one bathroom in our older bungelow (1921) home. Reseat the seal after each flush, yes, its what we do and also turn off the water when not using.

Thanks Terry for running this product review. I only wish I had looked for it earlier.

Mary Lou
Indpls, IN

[Reader Review]

A REAL PIECE OF CRAP!!!!! POORLY DESIGNED !!! THIS TOILET IS NOTHING BUT PROBLEMS!!! I HAD THE TANK REPLACED BY AMERICAN STANDARD ( WHICH ONLY NEEDED THE FLUIDMASTER 400A VALVE REPLACED)-JUNK TOO!! BUT THEY INSISTED THEY WANTED TO SEND ME A NEW TANK ( WHICH NOW I SCAB PARTS FROM). HOME DEPOT SELLS THIS PIECE OF JUNK AND HAS NO IDEA OF ITS FAULTS. YOU CANNOT REPLACE THE FLUSH VALVE ASSEMBLY WITH A CONVENTIONAL ONE. THE HOLE ON THE TANK IS MUCH LARGER THAN A STANDARD TANK. HOME DEPOT DOE NOT CARRY THIS SPECIAL, POORLY ENGINEERED FLUSH VALVE ASSEMBLY IN STOCK. THE SEAL ON THE BOTTOM OF THE FLUSH VALVE IS A JOKE. I'VE TRIED TO FIND A EXTRA LARGE O-RING, SO FAR NO LUCK. I AM GOING TO GIVE AMERICAN STANDARD HELL MONDAY AM AND HOPE THEY BY NOW HAVE THIS ENGINEERING FIASCO IMPROVED!! I HAVE INSTALLED MANY OTHER BRANDS OF TOILETS AND FOUND THIS TO FLUSH BETTER THAN ANY OTHERS, BUT WITH ALL THE PROBLEMS THAT I HAVE HAD, I WOULD RATHER HAVE A BACKYARD OUTHOUSE INSTEAD!
Jeff Cluster
Arnold, Mo.

[gaw]

After a year of fighting the two AS champions in my home, I broke down and bought two Eljer Titan tanks ($119.00 each) at Lowes. The Eljer valve is 1/4" smaller than the Champion valve, but fits with no leaks if you use the Champion gasket.

Eljer uses a no-nonsense 3" flapper. Both my toilets now flush every time, with no flush valve leaking. Pictures here .

If anyone ever wants to get that class action suit going against AS, I want my name on that list!

[ncmike]

In the interest of fairness I offer the following:
1) I use the website http://www.americanstandard-us.com/ all the time. Works fine.

2) Champion does have a 10 year warranty, and seem to respond quickly to consumer problems.

#########################
I called them this afternoon:

me: I need a replacement seal for a Champion flush valve.

tech: Of course, sir. We'll send it out today. What is your address?


I hate having the problem, but that's good customer service. Perhaps it's a result of all of you who have gone before me...

[Reader Review]

I installed the champion toilet about 2 months ago and have been happy with the power of the flushing. Before this we have had to use a plunger about once a week on the old toilet. This week the flushing assembly broke and we were unable to flush at all. The inner parts on the assembly just fell apart. While attempting to fix the problem, I realized that all you needed to flush the toilet was to raise the outer tube on the assembly. So I took out all the inner parts of the assembly and attached the chain to a small hole (which was already there) on the outer tube. It works great. Not only does it flush, but it uses all the water in the tank AND the clunking sound is gone. Although it has only been a short time since I have done this, there haven?t been any problems this far.

R Webb

Any opinions on this would be gladly accepted.

[Reader Review]

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v732/auggie1/?action=view&current=toilet2PB.jpg

Terry, this toilet stinks engineering wise, see link , great when it works , guess that's why the 10 year hold your butt warranty as in waiting for the part.:-( . Peter R Agostini Sr

[Reader Review]

We need an attorney to file a class action on American Standard for the champion 4260 toilet. Do not buy it. It has give us nothing but trouble since we have had it. It leaks past the flush valve costing water. We have tried everything. It is now time to take them to court!!!!!
Donmy

[Reader Review]

I purchased an American Standard Champion toilet model 4260 about a year ago from Home Depot. I paid $ 250.00 for the toilet not including the cost of a plumber to install the toilet. I purchased this toilet because a plumber recommended I buy this toilet. This toilet used a marketing tool that you could flush a dozen golf balls down the toilet and it would not clog. Recently my toilet began leaking and I tried everything to fix it myself. I discovered the orange colored seal was causing the leak. This seal looks like a rubber band. I had to pay a plumber $ 75.00 to tell me I need a new seal. At this point I am very unhappy about the money I have invested in a worthless toilet. A new seal will cost a few dollars, but will this solve my problem with this toilet, or will the same thing happen every few months. I would like to know what I should do about this problem.

Sincerely,
Keith James

[Reader Review]

All in all, I'm pretty happy with our American Standard Champion model 4260 installed mid-2005. EXCEPT for two things: One, the flush handle keeps falling off. We cannot seem to fix it. Tips? Anyone else having this problem. It's just annoying. Also, our downstairs toilet (a regular type) had to be replaced earlier this year as it backed up and flooded. The plumber said that 1.6 gallon toilets often do this to sewer mains and recommended that we flush all toilets in the house randomly during the day to keep the lines clear. Comments?
Linda R