American Standard Champion toilet Review and comments. Rated #1 by Consumer Reports

**dluke@geeklair.net** · 12-02-2009, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by FloridaOrange

I can't buy a Toto without driving an hour or more North or South. I've got both Blows and Home Cheapo within a 5 minute drive from my house.

I'm in a similar situation. Both of the big box stores are selling the Champion 4 for $188 right now, and I noticed that Korky appears to have a flush valve seal available now (http://korky.com/Flapper450BP.html).

I want to replace 2 toilets in my house (old ones that flush well, but the glaze has worn off of the bowls and so are hard to keep clean). I don't think I can fit two toilets in my car, though - so that means ~4 hours of driving to pick up two totos (or renting a truck).

I'm a bit confused that the Champion 4 is on the toilet list (http://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm), I don't see any of the other ones as available from a big box store near me. I'm not a professional, and don't really mind if the install is going to take me extra time, but obviously don't want to be constantly having to replace seals to keep the toilet from running.

**maddog** · 12-02-2009, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by dluke@geeklair.net

Korky appears to have a flush valve seal available now (http://korky.com/Flapper450BP.html).

YES!! The blue seals from A.S. seem to blister and leak in about a year. I'm sure the Korky seal will be much better.

**FloridaOrange** · 12-02-2009, 08:50 AM

My Champion 4 is too new to make any comments about the longevity of the seal but I do like it so far. Flushes great.

**Runs with bison** · 12-02-2009, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by FloridaOrange

I can't buy a Toto without driving an hour or more North or South. I've got both Blows and Home Cheapo within a 5 minute drive from my house.

Are you saying that you have no plumbing supply houses within an hour drive? Because when I bought mine I checked with the two closest supply houses and they both could order them for me at good prices.

**FloridaOrange** · 12-02-2009, 10:38 AM

I have plumbing supply houses, I just checked the Toto authorized dealers through the website.

Besides, my Champion4 was free from the AS rep.

**Runs with bison** · 12-02-2009, 01:58 PM

Bonnie,

I believe what HJ is saying is that if the small overfill tube is down inside the overflow pipe the tank will siphon into the overfill tube until the tank level is close to that of the tube outlet. That's why some toilets have a clip to keep the tube pointed down at/but above the overfill tube opening.

**Runs with bison** · 12-02-2009, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by FloridaOrange

I have plumbing supply houses, I just checked the Toto authorized dealers through the website.

Besides, my Champion4 was free from the AS rep.

Free generally makes things more tempting.

We don't have an "authorized dealer" showroom much closer than you either, but one of the hour away showrooms had a non-showroom branch closer, In the end the other supply house close offered more of a discount w/Sanagloss so I took it.

Another person mentioned difficulty carrying two toilets in a car. That would depend on the car and the toilet. Our hatchback has no trouble with such a load if the toilet is a two piece. I was actually surprised how small the boxes were for the EcoDrake. I only hauled one of the three that way and it fit completely in the hatch with room to spare IIRC. I could probably haul three or more easily with the rear seat down.

The other two I ordered were delivered by the supply house for free since they missed their delivery time twice...and had to go pick them up from their distributor. I didn't ask for it, but it was a slow day for them and they insisted on doing the delivery. (Keep in mind I didn't pay any freight and was just waiting for their normal distribution run.) With the market the way it is one might be able to arrange delivery to seal the sale.

**FloridaOrange** · 12-02-2009, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Runs with bison

Free generally makes things more tempting.

Especially when it replaces a builder's special toilet.

**Terry** · 12-02-2009, 03:13 PM

We still have the service call on an American Standard we installed two weeks ago.

I'm always amazed at how many service calls American Standard generates for us, we hardly ever sell them, and yet they make up most of the call backs.

**FloridaOrange** · 12-02-2009, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Terry

We still have the service call on an American Standard we installed two weeks ago.

I'm always amazed at how many service calls American Standard generates for us, we hardly ever sell them, and yet they make up most of the call backs.

What went wrong with it after only two weeks?
I wonder if the sales rep vetted the one he gave me so I wouldn't find any problems with it...

**Terry** · 12-02-2009, 03:28 PM

On this one, leaks between tank and bowl.

Pretty much we expect problems on 20% of the boxes we open.
Matt, you've had only one experience.
We have many.
That's why most plumbers I run into don't install American Standard.
They just laugh when I ask, and then say "No!"

But you installed one toilet.
I sell a few thousand toilets a year.
Hardly any of those are American Standard.
Thank God!
After a while, you start cringing when someone wants American Standard, you can just feel the service call coming to bite you.

**FloridaOrange** · 12-02-2009, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Terry

On this one, leaks between tank and bowl.

Pretty much we expect problems on 20% of the boxes we open.
Matt, you've had only one experience.
We have many.
That's why most plumbers I run into don't install American Standard.
They just laugh when I ask, and then say "No!"

But you installed one toilet.
I sell a few thousand toilets a year.
Hardly any of those are American Standard.
Thank God!
After a while, you start cringing when someone wants American Standard, you can just feel the service call coming to bite you.

Thanks for the info. I realize I only have the one to compare, that's why I like to know. I don't see or ever hear about the hundreds that I specify in a given year.

I would spec Toto's more if they had them locally accessible. I still have and use the coffee cup given to me by the only time I've ever met a Toto rep. My mentor was flown up to the factory in Alabama(?) and was very impressed.

**dluke@geeklair.net** · 12-02-2009, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Terry

After a while, you start cringing when someone wants American Standard, you can just feel the service call coming to bite you.

... but it's not bad enough to warrant a 'Not Recommended' label? (http://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm)

I guess I will start calling around to see if someone nearby can order two Totos for me.

Big thanks to everyone here for sharing their knowledge/experience!

**Terry** · 12-02-2009, 04:29 PM

I don't see or ever hear about the hundreds that I specify in a given year.

I don't ever recall contacting a designer about problems with fixtures before,
That would be a first.

Does a plumber even care who the designer is?

You other plumbers out there.
Have you ever called up an architect or designer and given them a heads up on their specifications?

If I don't like the spec, I just change it.
And I certainly don't write reports on how the job went to the designer.

And by the way, I did have lunch bought for me one day.
Well, Kohler bought me lunch too.
That's two lunches.

**jadnashua** · 12-02-2009, 04:37 PM

While it is always better to buy a fragile porcelain appliance locally, I've had acceptable results buying 4 over the internet. If you go this route, allow enough time in case something does go wrong so it can be replaced and not affect your schedule. On one, it took longer than they said to arrive...it turned out it was broken along the way, and they never tried to deliver it...regardless whether you buy it locally or have it delivered, you should open and check for damage when you get it.