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Thread: American Standard Champion toilet Review and comments. Rated #1 by Consumer Reports

  1. #316
    DIY Junior Member merillon's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot, Terry! I just spoke to American Standard and they are sending me the new flush valve.

    Last edited by Terry; 04-06-2011 at 03:17 PM.

  2. #317
    Customer Service Manager Plumbing Wholesale Peanut9199's Avatar
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    As far as looks, it is way better than the Toto Drakes I had installed in my previous home. They were too small in my opinion and looked like something you might install in a child's bathroom. The tank looked so dinky against the wall and set away from the wall about 3-4 inches. This basically negated any advantage you might think you get with a smaller footprint because the edge of the bowl was still about the same distance from the wall as a "normal" size toilet like the Champion 4. The Champion 4 has a nice, full size tank that fits right up next to the wall with a 12" rough-in.
    I hope 3-4" away from the wall is an exaggeration.
    Not sure which Drake you have round front has a 3/4" gap and elongated has a 1-1/8" gap.
    Champion 4 has a 1" gap.

    Maintenance will be the determining factor and only time will tell on that. If I just have to replace a couple of seals every 2-3 years like i would have to replace the flapper on the Drake, I will be very happy with my purchase. Oh, and did I mention that the Champion 4 is about $100 cheaper than the Drake and has a 10 year warranty?
    Maintenance would be on the top of my list, i would rather pay the extra to have a trouble free unit.
    Moen has a lifetime guarantee on there cartridge, i used to change it every year or so, i replaced with a Grohe and 6 years later still works like day one and they also have a lifetime guarantee which means nothing if you never use it.

    If American Standard is confident in it's product, why does it have different warranties for it's toilets.

    This warranty applies to the majority of American Standard Fixtures unless otherwise noted in the list of warranties below.
    •American Standard One-Year Limited Warranty Toilets
    •Cadet® 3 Flush Right™ Toilet Five Year Limited Warranty
    •Champion® 4 Flushing System/Flowise Flushing System Ten-Year Worry-Free Decade™ Limited Warranty

    Drake


    Champion

    Drake
    Last edited by Terry; 10-15-2009 at 09:36 AM.

  3. #318
    DIY Junior Member Coug's Avatar
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    I can't tell you how validated I finally feel after finding this website. I have two Champion toilets that I installed about a year apart in 2006 and 2007. I have experienced the three problems everyone describes here:
    1. Toilet no. 1: Handle "misses" or disengages occasionally when flushing.
    2. Toilet no. 2: Flush valve broke apart. I took out the mechanism and simply looped a stainless steel ball chain through the hole in the remaining stopper piece, and through the hole in the handle rod, and its the best flush you ever saw. I just hold the handle down a bit longer for an even more powerful flush.
    3. Both toilets began to run incessantly and drove us crazy.

    I'm really glad I found out on this website that you could buy replacements for the orange gaskets at Lowes. I bought two, put them on, and the running water problem is solved!

    I do love the flush action and the fact that the toilets never clog. I guess I'll need to get the new flush valves eventually. Anyway thanks to everyone for all their suggestions and experiences on this forum.

  4. #319
    DIY Junior Member rebow's Avatar
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    just installed Champion 4 this summer, the inside stamp says 2005, it has the blue seal. You can hear a constant dripping when you listen next to the tank. I pushed down all around on the top of the seal. Could it be leaking from another location than the blue seal? The tank will refill approx every 10 min. AS is sending me a new seal.

  5. #320
    DIY Senior Member Runs with bison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaOrange View Post
    I have plumbing supply houses, I just checked the Toto authorized dealers through the website.

    Besides, my Champion4 was free from the AS rep.
    Free generally makes things more tempting.

    We don't have an "authorized dealer" showroom much closer than you either, but one of the hour away showrooms had a non-showroom branch closer, In the end the other supply house close offered more of a discount w/Sanagloss so I took it.

    Another person mentioned difficulty carrying two toilets in a car. That would depend on the car and the toilet. Our hatchback has no trouble with such a load if the toilet is a two piece. I was actually surprised how small the boxes were for the EcoDrake. I only hauled one of the three that way and it fit completely in the hatch with room to spare IIRC. I could probably haul three or more easily with the rear seat down.

    The other two I ordered were delivered by the supply house for free since they missed their delivery time twice...and had to go pick them up from their distributor. I didn't ask for it, but it was a slow day for them and they insisted on doing the delivery. (Keep in mind I didn't pay any freight and was just waiting for their normal distribution run.) With the market the way it is one might be able to arrange delivery to seal the sale.

  6. #321
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    We still have the service call on an American Standard we installed two weeks ago.

    I'm always amazed at how many service calls American Standard generates for us, we hardly ever sell them, and yet they make up most of the call backs.

  7. #322
    Plumbing Designer FloridaOrange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    We still have the service call on an American Standard we installed two weeks ago.

    I'm always amazed at how many service calls American Standard generates for us, we hardly ever sell them, and yet they make up most of the call backs.
    What went wrong with it after only two weeks?
    I wonder if the sales rep vetted the one he gave me so I wouldn't find any problems with it...
    Matt
    Semi-professional plumbing designer
    Enjoying life in SW Florida

  8. #323
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    On this one, leaks between tank and bowl.

    Pretty much we expect problems on 20% of the boxes we open.
    Matt, you've had only one experience.
    We have many.
    That's why most plumbers I run into don't install American Standard.
    They just laugh when I ask, and then say "No!"

    But you installed one toilet.
    I sell a few thousand toilets a year.
    Hardly any of those are American Standard.
    Thank God!
    After a while, you start cringing when someone wants American Standard, you can just feel the service call coming to bite you.

  9. #324
    Plumbing Designer FloridaOrange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    On this one, leaks between tank and bowl.

    Pretty much we expect problems on 20% of the boxes we open.
    Matt, you've had only one experience.
    We have many.
    That's why most plumbers I run into don't install American Standard.
    They just laugh when I ask, and then say "No!"

    But you installed one toilet.
    I sell a few thousand toilets a year.
    Hardly any of those are American Standard.
    Thank God!
    After a while, you start cringing when someone wants American Standard, you can just feel the service call coming to bite you.
    Thanks for the info. I realize I only have the one to compare, that's why I like to know. I don't see or ever hear about the hundreds that I specify in a given year.

    I would spec Toto's more if they had them locally accessible. I still have and use the coffee cup given to me by the only time I've ever met a Toto rep. My mentor was flown up to the factory in Alabama(?) and was very impressed.
    Matt
    Semi-professional plumbing designer
    Enjoying life in SW Florida

  10. #325
    DIY Junior Member dluke@geeklair.net's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    After a while, you start cringing when someone wants American Standard, you can just feel the service call coming to bite you.
    ... but it's not bad enough to warrant a 'Not Recommended' label? (http://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm)

    I guess I will start calling around to see if someone nearby can order two Totos for me.

    Big thanks to everyone here for sharing their knowledge/experience!

  11. #326
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    I don't see or ever hear about the hundreds that I specify in a given year.
    I don't ever recall contacting a designer about problems with fixtures before,
    That would be a first.

    Does a plumber even care who the designer is?

    You other plumbers out there.
    Have you ever called up an architect or designer and given them a heads up on their specifications?

    If I don't like the spec, I just change it.
    And I certainly don't write reports on how the job went to the designer.

    And by the way, I did have lunch bought for me one day.
    Well, Kohler bought me lunch too.
    That's two lunches.
    Last edited by Terry; 12-02-2009 at 04:45 PM.

  12. #327
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    While it is always better to buy a fragile porcelain appliance locally, I've had acceptable results buying 4 over the internet. If you go this route, allow enough time in case something does go wrong so it can be replaced and not affect your schedule. On one, it took longer than they said to arrive...it turned out it was broken along the way, and they never tried to deliver it...regardless whether you buy it locally or have it delivered, you should open and check for damage when you get it.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  13. #328
    Plumbing Designer FloridaOrange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    I don't ever recall contacting a designer about problems with fixtures before,
    That would be a first.
    We would typically hear about it from the owner. We do get feedback on some jobs but usually within a few months, never after a year. I'm working on my 6th dialysis center for the year, same Architect and GC but never the same plumber. I really wish a couple of them were able to do repeats and highly recommended one of them to do repeats but the owners don't listen to us too much. Then they complain when the plumber does the job "his way" and are unhappy with "his way".

    The last plumber ran all the water under the slab. In CPVC.
    He was pissed that he had to redo 70% of the water piping. In this economy, some of the plumbing contractors would be happy to go to the other side of the state for another choice job, especially since the first has the steepest learning curve.
    Matt
    Semi-professional plumbing designer
    Enjoying life in SW Florida

  14. #329
    Plumbing Designer FloridaOrange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    If I don't like the spec, I just change it.
    And I certainly don't write reports on how the job went to the designer.

    The plumbing contractors have to turn in submittals for all equipment and fixtures they intend to use for approval by the owner, the architect and finally by the engineers.
    Matt
    Semi-professional plumbing designer
    Enjoying life in SW Florida

  15. #330
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    The plumbing contractors have to turn in submittal for all equipment and fixtures they intend to use for approval by the owner, the architect and finally by the engineers.
    That's how I change them.
    Submittal.
    It works the same here.

    I guess in Florida things haven't changed much.

    Here in Seattle, we use the good products.

    Seatac airport uses TOTO in their new projects.
    The crew down there says those are their trouble free units.

    Emerald Queen Casino has TOTO in their new digs.

    And many new projects in the high rises have been going TOTO.

    Macy's Lynnwood went with American Standard on their new stuff, but it's plugging up all the time. Too bad for Macy's.

    Their old bathrooms used American Standard too.
    Drop the paper in the front of the bowl, and it doesn't go anywhere.
    How strange is that?
    Last edited by Terry; 12-02-2009 at 05:26 PM.

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