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Thread: Clack WS1 type softener-no suction-have tried "everything"

  1. #31
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    Agreed, look at the first reply to the OP question, the first sentence was to check the drain line flow control rate.

    No brine draw, check the water going to drain... troubleshooting 101.

    Let us know what you find

    .

  2. #32
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Perhaps all of his troubles from the beginning was low pressure. But at least if it was he has enough rebuild parts to keep that valve going until the next century
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  3. #33
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    Agreed, look at the first reply to the OP question, the first sentence was to check the drain line flow control rate.

    No brine draw, check the water going to drain... troubleshooting 101.

    Let us know what you find

    .
    Yep we both told him about the low drain flow having to be fixed in the first sentence of our replies and we were the first two to reply to his problem. I'll bet there is a lesson learned.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  4. #34
    DIY Senior Member mialynette2003's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    A new gauge is about $5 and it takes maybe 15 minutes to change one... I told you the low drain flow had to be fixed before you did anything else.

    You get the new gauge in and then check and adjust the air pressure in the tank with no water in it to 29 psi. Then set the pressure switch to on at 30 and off at 50.

    If your switch is say 10 years old or more, or you've been foolin' with adjusting it with no gauge, buy a new 30/50 switch and install it when installing the new gauge. And check the air pressure is 29 psi with no water in the tank before you turn the pump on.
    Gary, Why would you recommend he set the well up for a 30/50 instead of a 40/60? I've always bought a 40/60 pressure switch. Is there any advantage or disadvantage by setting it on a 30/50?

  5. #35
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mialynette2003 View Post
    Gary, Why would you recommend he set the well up for a 30/50 instead of a 40/60? I've always bought a 40/60 pressure switch. Is there any advantage or disadvantage by setting it on a 30/50?


    I prefer the 40-60 setting, or even the 50-70, but.. good question. Is there an advantage to the lower or higher settings. The obvious differences would be electircal consumption, higher pressure equals more electricity. What about pump life or other issus. The additional energy consumption is definetly a legitimate issue, but for most people, the difference would not be a major one.

    Nothing meant by this question, just a query so as to have a greater understanding.

  6. #36
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    30/50 seems to be pretty standard for some reason. Standard pressure switches come set at 20/40, 30/50 and 40/60. 30/50 is right in the middle. we buy a couple of cases of pressure switches a year and both cases are 30/50's
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  7. #37
    Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOCSCANTLIN View Post
    Any idea what 30# of water pressure looks like out of a 1/2" pipe?
    It looks like a lot more water than you thought it would. The formula for calculating it precisely is complex, and depends on the type of pipe, but for government work it's pretty close to 15 GPM.

  8. #38
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mialynette2003 View Post
    Gary, Why would you recommend he set the well up for a 30/50 instead of a 40/60? I've always bought a 40/60 pressure switch. Is there any advantage or disadvantage by setting it on a 30/50?
    The unwritten 'norm' used to be 20/40 and that started to change 25 years ago when houses started to be built with more than 1.5 bathrooms.

    The higher the water pressure the pump is run at, the more water that will be used. Some wells may not be able to handle that extra water use very well.

    Most people have a nominal 20 gal pressure tank and higher switch settings causes the pump to turn on more frequently because the higher pressure causes a reduction in draw down gals from the pressure tank. That runs up the electric bill but more importantly. it can burn up pumps and pressure switches.

    Higher pressure also increases the velocity of the water and that isn't good for the plumbing or appliances and can cause water hammer and all its damage.

    30/50 is an average 40 psi and really, all most households need in the vast majority of houses in the US.

    Raising the psi without properly sizing the pressure tank and setting the precharge air pressure correctly for whatever switch setting you propose, is a large disservice to your customer because it can cause them serious expensive problems.

    So let me ask yous guys, why do you propose raising the water pressure on a private well water system higher than 30/50, what is the advantage(s) to doing that? Personally my guess is that it has something to do with not wanting loss of water pressure complaints. Properly sized equipment has no noticeable pressure loss at 30/50.

    BTW, the Clack WS-1 and most Fleck valves work just fine on 20/40.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  9. #39
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Most often the reason is because the water distribution piping in the home is undersized in the first place and then when folks remodel and update fixtures ( rain,showers, roman tubs etc) the undersized piping becomes a problem with raising the pressure being the quick and inexpensive "fix" If the distribution piping is properly sized and installed there is no reason gor higher pressures unless you have a customer that likes being slammed against the shower wall. Remember folks, this is America where some's good, more's better
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  10. #40
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    30/50 seems to be pretty standard for some reason. Standard pressure switches come set at 20/40, 30/50 and 40/60. 30/50 is right in the middle. we buy a couple of cases of pressure switches a year and both cases are 30/50's
    ummm ... LOL The reason for them being 30/50 is due to whoever is in charge of ordering more switches, he/she orders 30/50 switches. You could ask your brother who he put in charge of that task after you 'retired'.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  11. #41
    DIY Junior Member DOCSCANTLIN's Avatar
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    Gentlemen:
    Thank you so very much for all your input. Yes, it seems I should have checked the pressure but my gauge was inoperative and it seemed the pressure through my faucets was "fine". Plus the faucets through the softener were same as the faucet bypassing the softener. I didn't check softener drain flow, thinking the water coming out of both the drain and brine would skew the reading. Of course, any of you experienced guys would have simply looked at the flow and ascertained low flow. 1 pint per minute has got to look different than 1 gpm. So I apologize for leading you all on, possibly, a wild goose chase. I am picking up a fitting to install a new gauge, am getting ready for a show so can't install until Sunday. I will report back. Thanks again. Now, to learn all about switches, pressures, tanks, etc. My well (and tank/switch) is 10 years old with the pump in the ground.
    Kind regards, Doc
    Thanks again. I have learned much from you all!

  12. #42
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    ummm ... LOL The reason for them being 30/50 is due to whoever is in charge of ordering more switches, he/she orders 30/50 switches. You could ask your brother who he put in charge of that task after you 'retired'.
    Nope, that would be me that orders them. I get two cases of 30/50s and a dozen each of 20/40 and 40/60 because we don't use those as often. Most times we are replacing what is already there and what is already there is usually a 30/50
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  13. #43
    Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek Mikey's Avatar
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    Is there any reason why the differential has to be 20#? Could you set things for 30/60?

  14. #44
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    If you go much moe than 20 lbs the pressure drop becomes noticable and if you go much less the pump cycles too often.
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  15. #45
    Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek Mikey's Avatar
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    Makes sense; thanks. For a number of reasons, some that make sense, I'm putting a 2nd tank in parallel with the one I've been using for 7 years. Same pressure settings on the tanks (38#) single pressure switch (40/60). Expect to see fewer, longer pump cycles, and a dynamic backup for a single tank failure.

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