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Thread: how to square up mounting holes for closet bolts

  1. #16
    DIY Senior Member dlarrivee's Avatar
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    w
    Quote Originally Posted by nestork View Post
    You're correct.

    If it says acrylic resins on the paint, then that normally means "100% Acrylic" resins, which in paint speak means the Plexiglas type paint which have much better moisture resistance that the wood glue type paints.

    And you're also correct about covering a general purpose primer. Once it's covered with a quality paint, it won't get enough moisture into it to cause problems with peeling.

    In future, when it comes time to repaint your bathroom, remember that you can also get paints specifically meant for bathrooms. Not only will these paints stand up better to moisture and humidity, but they'll also have mildewcides added to them. These mildewcides are solid powders that dissolve in the latex paint. These mildewcides are so highly soluble in water that even the presence of high humidity causes those mildewcides to migrate through the solid paint film toward that humidity. Once at the surface of the paint, those mildewcides kill any milidew spores that land on the paint before they have a chance to grow. So, to keep a bathroom paint effective for as long as possible, it's a good idea not to clean that paint with water any more often than necessary because doing that accelerates the depletion of the mildewcide out of the paint film.
    I'm sorry to hear that you drank that kool-aid and feel the need to spread the word.

    I'm going to ask for plexiglass paint the next time I'm at the paint store too, they should get a good laugh out of that one.

  2. #17
    Janitorial Technician nestork's Avatar
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    Default Yes, good quality latex paint is made of the same stuff Plexiglas is made of

    Quote Originally Posted by dlarrivee View Post
    w

    I'm sorry to hear that you drank that kool-aid and feel the need to spread the word.

    I'm going to ask for plexiglass paint the next time I'm at the paint store too, they should get a good laugh out of that one.
    If people working in a paint store laugh at the idea of latex paint being made out of the same plastic that Plexiglas is made of, it's more sad than it is funny. That's cuz most people working in paint stores know next to nothing about the paint they're selling. If they did, they'd know that good quality latex paints are made from polymethyl methacrylate, which is the plastic that Plexiglas is made of.

    Here, take a look at this Wikipedia page:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poly(methyl_methacrylate)

    Right at the beginning of that page it says:
    "Poly(methyl methacrylate) (PMMA) is a transparent thermoplastic... ...and was first brought to market in 1933 by the Rohm and Haas Company, under the trademark Plexiglas.[4] It has since been sold under many different names, including Lucite and Perspex.

    They're saying that Plexiglas is made out of PMMA, or polymethyl methacrylate.

    Now, look further down on that same Wikipedia page under Artistic and Aesthetic Uses where it says:

    "Acrylic paint essentially consists of PMMA suspended in water; however since PMMA is hydrophobic, a substance with both hydrophobic and hydrophilic groups needs to be added to facilitate the suspension."

    What they're saying is that acrylic paints consist of extremely tiny blobs of hard clear and colourles Plexiglas (called "binder resins") suspended in water, and that a chemical is added to the paint to keep those tiny particles of plastic in suspension.

    Now take a look at this page from the Rohm & Haas Company:

    http://www.paintquality.com/homeowne...100acrylic.pdf

    In paint-speak, the term "100% Acrylic" means the binder resins are made out of polymethyl methacrylate and "vinly acrylic" means that the binder resins are made out of polyvinyl acetate, which is often abbreviated to "PVA".

    That web page from Rohm & Haas lists the benefits of using paints made with PMMA resins, and point #1.b is that under wet conditions, there is a "minimized chance of peeling and loss of adhesion".

    They're saying that if you use a 100% Acrylic paint on the ceiling and walls of a bathroom with a shower that's going to create wet conditions for the paint, the paint isn't less likely to peel off.

    However, when most people see paint peeling in a bathroom, expecially on the ceiling and high up on the walls, they attribute the problem to insufficient prep work prior to painting. This is probably the most commonly misdiagnosed problem when it comes to painting.

    http://cds.a9t2h4q7.hwcdn.net/main/s...000front1G.jpg

  3. #18
    DIY Member coldsolderjoint's Avatar
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    I put the grout in last night.. and ordered wainscotting for the bottom 36" of wall.

    When I do install the toilet.. can I use the wax rings and bolts that are in the toilet box, or should I get new ones?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  4. #19
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    I would look carefully at what they give you in the box, because it's not always the best quality. Frankly, if I were going to spend money on something, I would get myself a better set of tank-to-bowl hardware, as many of the reporting professional on here do with this toilet. I would likely get a decent set of closet bolts, meaning made out of an appropriate material in a good thickness, with two nuts: one to nut to the flange and another to secure toilet to flange. As to wax rings, if you have the flange at the proper level, which you will here, a standard-thickness wax ring should suffice; when using a single wax ring, many posters here recommend the one without any kind of plastic horn or flange built-in. Of course, it couldn't hurt to have a good, thick wax ring...

  5. #20
    DIY Senior Member BobL43's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldsolderjoint View Post
    I put the grout in last night.. and ordered wainscotting for the bottom 36" of wall.

    When I do install the toilet.. can I use the wax rings and bolts that are in the toilet box, or should I get new ones?
    Just out of curiousity, why do you feel that the bolts and wax ring are any different than what you'd buy yourself? Are they not brass bolts, or long enough?

    On my last toilet installation, I used the Sani-Seal ring instead of a wax ring. Its not very long ago, but it is very neat to use and I liked that part of it. I have had no leaks with it, and hope it lasts as long as the wax ring that was under the old toilet that I replaced. time will tell
    I am definitely not a pro plumber, but I am a pro crastinator

  6. #21
    DIY Member coldsolderjoint's Avatar
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    I was just curious.. i still havent taken the toilet out of the box yet.. and i saw last night on the side of the box that they where included.. so given that the pro's here don't really like american standard.. thought they might not be putting good hardware in the box.

  7. #22
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    I was thinking of replies 4, 5 and 6 of This Thread (Click Here).

    The Wolverine Brass tank-to-bowl set that the poster iin that thread mentions isn't sold to non-plumbers by Wolverine, but there are similar ones out there at any good plumbing supply place, or online. Look up Lasco 04-3675 for the kind of thing the posters are discussing.

  8. #23
    DIY Member coldsolderjoint's Avatar
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    interesting.. maybe i was on the right track to think about new hardware.. and my next toilet... :-/

  9. #24
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    I don't mean to torture you into spending 5% of the price of the toilet (and 50% more than you spent on paint) on a tank-to-bowl set when the AS one may work just fine. That set I mention might be perceived by some as quality-overkill, but I'm pretty sure that once it is in, there will be no leaks and the tank won't be going anywhere. So one option is of course to check out what's in the box, see if it looks like it's going to work, and have the knowledge of this stuff as a fallback if there's a problem soon or down the road. Also, you can check out Terry's toilet install kit; he has said that he includes the brands that he particularly likes. If for no other reason, you can check it out to see what he uses when installing toilets. It's under shopping, near the bottom of his list of toilets and such. At the bottom here: http://www.easycarts.net/ecarts/terr...o_Toilets.html

  10. #25
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    If the supplied hardware is solid brass or SS, it should be fine. If it is plated, it's probably not the best thing to use. And, they probably do not include a second set of nuts and washers which can really help.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  11. #26
    DIY Senior Member dlarrivee's Avatar
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    nestork sorry to burst your bubble but there is more than one polymer in the world.

  12. #27
    DIY Member coldsolderjoint's Avatar
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    Thanks guys!

    Two new questions:

    1. I'm going to be installing MDF wainscotting on the lower parts of the wall.. thinking I should prime with Killz Latex and then Paint with the Gliden Semi-Gloss in the same color as the ceiling "white on white".. any problems with the semi-gloss?

    2. How's the quality of Mancessa Toilets? I have one in my half bath that I will re-do after this main bath is done. I'm running low on funds and I'm thinking about re-using this toilet. It works ok overall I guess, need to plunge every once in awhile, and the tank needs to be rebuilt.. i have the fluid master kit.. just haven't got around to installing it all. Also, a lot of brown (guessing hardwater??) stains in the tank.. is it worth trying to clean it up?

  13. #28
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Item 1 isn't in my skill set.

    As to item 2, Mansfield is owned by Corona, a Columbia-based company that makes China products. Mansfield makes Mancesa plumbing products, in large part for South American customers but they also sell through some channels in the US. So, think of it as a Mansfield, I guess. Bleach in the tank after the guts are out often helps with the brown, at least in my experience. Lots of people like that Fluidmaster 400A, but I get the sense on here that their flappers are crap; don't know if that flush valve will take a standard Korky flapper. If not, you might think of chucking that Fluidmaster flush valve and getting a Korky flush valve and flapper at Lowe's for about $10. HD has a crappy selection of Korky stuff; it's much more complete at Lowes.

    You can get a Toto Drake now in a lot of places for a good price. But with your skills, you can always rehab the toilet you have now and change it out later for a Toto if you want.

  14. #29
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Stains in the tank aren't a problem...it can be a problem if it's in the bowl, but only asthetically.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  15. #30
    DIY Member coldsolderjoint's Avatar
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    Thanks..

    like 99% sure its NOT an upper Decker

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