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Thread: New Whole House Carbon Filter & Water Softener

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member Zzyzx's Avatar
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    Default New Whole House Carbon Filter & Water Softener

    Hi All,

    With all the information that has been posted in here, I came to the conclusion that I wanted a whole house carbon filter for the chlorine and water softener. I had decided on a Clack unit based on the great feedback. I found a local (Austin) dealer who sells and installs those units.

    He came buy today to provide a quote and said he had the equipment if I was ready for the install. I told him to go for it and it has been installed. A few hours later I went to the garage to look at the system and noticed that it didn't say Clack on the valve. After some research. I found out that he had installed a Canature BNT 5650 (F) valve with a Canature water softener and carbon filter tank. The gentleman who installed it did mention something about new equipment he has been trying out for 2 years, but now realize that it looks like that new equipment is what he installed for me

    I tried to research this brand, but the only thing that comes up is places you can import it from in China. Is the Canature brand comparable to the Clack or other reliable brands. He did seem like he knew what he was talking about, but I still feel like I'm in the dark.

    Thank you for any insight!

    Dave

  2. #2
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    I am very familiar with Canature and I have been to their manufacturing facility in China. They make some great stuff, but there valves do not compare to a Fleck or Clack valve. If he said he was going to get you a Clack valve, or if his website or literature showed you a Clack valve, demand he remove the Cantaure valve and reinstall a new valve. The Canature valves are the lowest cost units we can buy that maintain some quality standards, but I certtainly would not compare it to Fleck or Clack. Also make sure he did not use the Canature bottom screen, these have yet to pass even our simplest quality tests. The good thing is the valves are basically interchangable, the bad thing is, he is unlikely to change the valve. You got yourself a problem on this one.

    Of course he will claim it is as good, they have a longer waranty etc. A hyndai has a longer warranty than a BMW, it does not mean the Hyuindai is better. How much did he charge you? I have a major problem with dealers selling these units for the same price as they would sell a top tier brand, it is only adding $50 to their total profit margin, not worth it to most of the more experienced and knowledgable dealers.

    Good luck.

  3. #3
    DIY Junior Member Zzyzx's Avatar
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    Thanks for that information Dittohead, I will certainly call him back and ask for an explanation on why he installed the different valve. I have one other question I hope you can help me with before I call him back: he also installed the Canature tanks as well. Are these ok, or should they be replaced with a better quality tank as well? Both the carbon filter tank and water softener tank are Canature branded.

    Sorry for my ignorance, but what is the bottom screen?

    Other then the Canature being a lower quality valve, is the outcome of the water the same in regards to filtering and softening? I know sometimes the QC in chinese factories can be spotty and I just want to make sure I'm not compromising my families health in anyway.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by Zzyzx; 08-31-2012 at 02:50 AM.

  4. #4
    DIY Senior Member mialynette2003's Avatar
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    I agree with Dittohead. If he said he sold you a Clack, he should install a Clack. That includes the tanks. I know a few people in the water business in Austin. None of them, as far as I know, sell the Canture valve. I sent you a private message.

  5. #5
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    I am very familiar with Canature and I have been to their manufacturing facility in China. They make some great stuff, but there valves do not compare to a Fleck or Clack valve.

    The Canature valves are the lowest cost units we can buy that maintain some quality standards, but I certtainly would not compare it to Fleck or Clack.

    Of course he will claim it is as good, they have a longer waranty etc.

    I have a major problem with dealers selling these units for the same price as they would sell a top tier brand, it is only adding $50 to their total profit margin, not worth it to most of the more experienced and knowledgable dealers.
    IYO, what specifically makes them lessor quality than Fleck or Clack?

    Why the major problem with what dealers sell their equipment for?
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  6. #6
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    IYO, what specifically makes them lessor quality than Fleck or Clack?

    Why the major problem with what dealers sell their equipment for?
    Having been in business of selling equipment for what is it 25 years or so, would you have sold one of your customers Clack product and then had Canature equipment show up on their doorstep. And if you did, what do you suppose the reaction would be from your customer? A business owner can charge whatever they want to charge but it's not gonna be long before customers start complaining if you sell them low quality for the same price as high quality.
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  7. #7
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    There were already 2-3 posts saying the dealer was wrong for the 'bait'n switch' but from my reply you understand I would be OK with it... I'm not but...

    My question about the lower quality valves is valid, especially when it is directed to someone that has visited the factory in China. That person also says they have some high quality stuff, just not control valves. I see that as self serving or anti competitor or meant to protect US manufacturers unless there are specific factual reasons.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  8. #8
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    You have a problem with protecting U.S. manufacturing?
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  9. #9
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    I'm all for protecting US manufacturers from government intrusion and/or isolation and I believe competition makes all manufacturers better or weeds out the bad ones which benefits the consumer regardless of where the manufacturers are on the planet.

    I'm thinking you're more into union type 'buy American'.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  10. #10
    DIY Junior Member Zzyzx's Avatar
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    Even though the 'bait and switch' has me a bit upset, I'm more concerned with the overall quality of the equipment and safety of my water. In the end if I decide to stay with the Canature carbon filter, resin tank and valve, do I have anything to worry about other then the installer made a bigger margin off the sale?

    I know in some chinese factories regulators can be bought and inferior products can be used in place of the intended product. I just want to certain my families health will not be compromised. Hence, the reason I wanted the high quality stuff in the first place!

  11. #11
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    If you paid for a Clack valve, or were lead to beleive it was going to be a Clack valve, demand a Clack valve. The Canature valves are decent, but it is not right if he told you that is was going to be a Clack valve. Canature does make a valve that is supposed to look like a Clack valve, as well as the 5600, and I am sure they will continue to "innovate".

    Future customer support, parts availability, etc will alll come into play. If you come on this boars in 5 years asking for advice on how to repair this unit, the answer will be to buy a new one. If it were a Fleck, Clack, Autotrol, etc, the answer will be quite different. I am going to leave it at that.

  13. #13
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zzyzx View Post
    Even though the 'bait and switch' has me a bit upset, I'm more concerned with the overall quality of the equipment and safety of my water. In the end if I decide to stay with the Canature carbon filter, resin tank and valve, do I have anything to worry about other then the installer made a bigger margin off the sale?
    I know in some chinese factories regulators can be bought and inferior products can be used in place of the intended product. I just want to certain my families health will not be compromised. Hence, the reason I wanted the high quality stuff in the first place!
    Looking at their web site, they have been in business for 20 years and look quite successful. All your equipment is NSF rated for potable water use, as the US equipment would have been, so you should not have health concerns.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  14. #14
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    I'm all for protecting US manufacturers from government intrusion and/or isolation and I believe competition makes all manufacturers better or weeds out the bad ones which benefits the consumer regardless of where the manufacturers are on the planet.

    I'm thinking you're more into union type 'buy American'.

    Nah, it's almost impossible to just buy American, besides I have a fondness for British and German motor cars. Anyhoo, why the comment on Canature valve. You know it is nowhere near the quality valve that both Clack and Fleck are. It's a cheap Chinese knockoff. They advertise them all over the place. About the same quality as GE or any of the store brand valve heads are. Oh yes, unions. Not a fan. As a business owner I have an inbuilt dislike for organized labor.
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  15. #15
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    If you paid for a Clack valve, or were lead to beleive it was going to be a Clack valve, demand a Clack valve.

    The Canature valves are decent, but it is not right if he told you that is was going to be a Clack valve. Canature does make a valve that is supposed to look like a Clack valve, as well as the 5600, and I am sure they will continue to "innovate".
    So now the Canature valves are decent... you're starting to sound like a WQA spokesperson.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

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