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Thread: Is the sizing on this OK and any comments on Aqua-pure softeners

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    DIY Junior Member feeno49's Avatar
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    Default Is the sizing on this OK and any comments on Aqua-pure softeners

    2 people, 15 GPG, so about 16000 G per week. I looked at a variety of 1.0 CF and 1.25 CF softeners (looking for Fleck or Clack valves) and they are all 9 inch tanks, so no more than 8-10 g/min flow rate. So I am looking at a 1.5 cf Aqua-pure (CWS150) that will be at least 12 gpm. Since I want to run it at minimum salt dose, the smaller softener is closer to the once per week regeneration cycle and the 1.5 cf will be more like 10-11 days. Is that going to be a problem?

    Also, does anyone have any experience with Aqua-pure (3M Corp). It seems to be a Clack valve (looking at the installation and maintenance manuals) and everything else appears to be quality parts.

    Thanks

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    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    Those units are great. Regenerating every 10-11 days is just fine. Some people will say that they should be regenerated more often, this is not true at all. Unless you have iron or other contaminants in the water that can permanently foul the resin, regenerating every couple of weeks is fine.

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    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    They use a Clack valve but not industry standard sized tanks for the softeners I looked at on 3M's site. They are using at least a size smaller than normal.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

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    DIY Junior Member feeno49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    They use a Clack valve but not industry standard sized tanks for the softeners I looked at on 3M's site. They are using at least a size smaller than normal.
    Interesting, I didn't notice that, but it is definitely shorter than others. I haven't found anyone else that second sources the Clack valve so I guess I go with Fleck. Any suggestions? I know I should shop locally but the only dealer is Hellenbrand and I didn't care for the fast talk. I've looked at CAI, Quality Water Treatment and I'm thinking in terms of the Fleck 6700.

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    DIY Junior Member feeno49's Avatar
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    I went back and looked at one of your old posts. You say that 50% freeboard is required for backwash. In this case, you would have 3454 cu in of space in the tank and you would need 1.5 * 1728 cu in / cu ft = 2592 cu in. I know that some of the tank is used for fittings and such, but I don't know how much. Is a 44" tank too small, or just marginal?

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    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...l-Bed-Question

    This link explains the real freeboard calculations.

    As to the 6700, it is a great valve but... should it need service in the future, the cost of the powerhead is nearly equal to the cost of the whole valve. It is a very expensive controller to maintain should it ever need service. That being said, it rarely ever needs service.

    I would recommend the 7000SXT, the 2510SXT, or the 5600SXT over the 6700.

  7. #7
    DIY Junior Member feeno49's Avatar
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    That's great info. Thanks.

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    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    a 10x44 has a cu. ft. capacity w/ 50% freeboard of 1.0 The total capacity is 1.75 Cu. ft. including domes. Domes have approximately .1 Cu. Ft. each.

    These are not exact numbers so please dont grab a calculator and tell me I am missing .05 cu. ft. :P

    A 10x54 is the common tank used for 1.5 Cu. Ft. systems has a cu. ft. capacity w/ 50% freeboard of 1.3 The total capacity is 2.2 Cu. ft. including domes. Domes have approximately .1 Cu. Ft. each.

    As you can see, even a 10x54 is slightly undersized for a 1.5 cu. ft. system, but it is close enough.

    I hope this isnt to technical, but you seem to understand the sizing aspects of systems, so I thought this would be beneficial to you.

  9. #9
    DIY Junior Member feeno49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    a 10x44 has a cu. ft. capacity w/ 50% freeboard of 1.0 The total capacity is 1.75 Cu. ft. including domes. Domes have approximately .1 Cu. Ft. each.

    These are not exact numbers so please dont grab a calculator and tell me I am missing .05 cu. ft. :P

    A 10x54 is the common tank used for 1.5 Cu. Ft. systems has a cu. ft. capacity w/ 50% freeboard of 1.3 The total capacity is 2.2 Cu. ft. including domes. Domes have approximately .1 Cu. Ft. each.

    As you can see, even a 10x54 is slightly undersized for a 1.5 cu. ft. system, but it is close enough.

    I hope this isnt to technical, but you seem to understand the sizing aspects of systems, so I thought this would be beneficial to you.
    Thanks again. I asked Aqua-pure for an explanation and I suspect that I will get something about the Vortex tank. The claim is that those tanks only need one-third freeboard, but I don't see why they would want to cut that particular corner. I'll post back if they respond.

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    DIY Junior Member EKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feeno49 View Post
    2 people, 15 GPG, so about 16000 G per week. I looked at a variety of 1.0 CF and 1.25 CF softeners (looking for Fleck or Clack valves) and they are all 9 inch tanks, so no more than 8-10 g/min flow rate. So I am looking at a 1.5 cf Aqua-pure (CWS150) that will be at least 12 gpm. Since I want to run it at minimum salt dose, the smaller softener is closer to the once per week regeneration cycle and the 1.5 cf will be more like 10-11 days. Is that going to be a problem?

    Also, does anyone have any experience with Aqua-pure (3M Corp). It seems to be a Clack valve (looking at the installation and maintenance manuals) and everything else appears to be quality parts.

    Thanks
    I work for 3M PI as the Field Operations Manager which manufactures the CWS-ME series water softener. Let me try to help out here. Your calculations are correct in the amount of hardness in gpg a water softener is capable of removing over a week. For this application the use of a 1ft3 unit (CWS100ME would work well and provide endless soft water to this residence. The flow rate listed for this unit will provide a sufficient flow rate to meet the demands for a home with 2 1/2 baths and up to 5 people. The grain capacity at the factory salt setting is 22,000 grains. The unit comes with a 5 button clack control valve with a brine tank that holds 160# of salt. The control is metered initiated and is programmed to constantly monitor water usage of a seven day period and adjust regeneration for maximum salt efficiency as needed. While the unit would regenerate probably once every 1.4 weeks, it is possible that the unit may not initiate regeneration as often or may go more often at times depending on water usage by this customer.
    Our mineral tank offering in diameters may not be like other manufacturers of water treatment products, as we utilize a turbulator distributor tube with the mineral tank which does not require as much free board (space above the resin). This has been a standard our company has used in the mineral tank sizing for over 25 years.

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    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Good information and welcome to the forum.
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

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    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EKR View Post
    I work for 3M PI as the Field Operations Manager which manufactures the CWS-ME series water softener. Let me try to help out here. Your calculations are correct in the amount of hardness in gpg a water softener is capable of removing over a week. For this application the use of a 1ft3 unit (CWS100ME would work well and provide endless soft water to this residence. The flow rate listed for this unit will provide a sufficient flow rate to meet the demands for a home with 2 1/2 baths and up to 5 people. The grain capacity at the factory salt setting is 22,000 grains. The unit comes with a 5 button clack control valve with a brine tank that holds 160# of salt. The control is metered initiated and is programmed to constantly monitor water usage of a seven day period and adjust regeneration for maximum salt efficiency as needed. While the unit would regenerate probably once every 1.4 weeks, it is possible that the unit may not initiate regeneration as often or may go more often at times depending on water usage by this customer.
    Our mineral tank offering in diameters may not be like other manufacturers of water treatment products, as we utilize a turbulator distributor tube with the mineral tank which does not require as much free board (space above the resin). This has been a standard our company has used in the mineral tank sizing for over 25 years.

    Thanks and welcome to the board! The turbulator allows for a much shorter tank and less freeboard. We sell a lot of these and they have been absolutely trouble free. As stated earlier, the 3M unit is excellent and would be a great choice. We look forward to your continued input!

  13. #13
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EKR View Post
    I work for 3M PI as the Field Operations Manager which manufactures the CWS-ME series water softener. Let me try to help out here. Your calculations are correct in the amount of hardness in gpg a water softener is capable of removing over a week. For this application the use of a 1ft3 unit (CWS100ME would work well and provide endless soft water to this residence. The flow rate listed for this unit will provide a sufficient flow rate to meet the demands for a home with 2 1/2 baths and up to 5 people. The grain capacity at the factory salt setting is 22,000 grains. The unit comes with a 5 button clack control valve with a brine tank that holds 160# of salt. The control is metered initiated and is programmed to constantly monitor water usage of a seven day period and adjust regeneration for maximum salt efficiency as needed. While the unit would regenerate probably once every 1.4 weeks, it is possible that the unit may not initiate regeneration as often or may go more often at times depending on water usage by this customer.
    Our mineral tank offering in diameters may not be like other manufacturers of water treatment products, as we utilize a turbulator distributor tube with the mineral tank which does not require as much free board (space above the resin). This has been a standard our company has used in the mineral tank sizing for over 25 years.
    Is it true that to use a Turbulator distributor tube that the gpm of the drain line flow control must be increased leading to more water use than a softener with a regular distributor tube, with or without a gravel underbed?

    Is it also true that a Turbulator shortens the life of resin?

    What max peak demand gpm do you suggest for your 1.0 cuft softener?
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

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    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Ah yes, the test of initiation Beware that any answer given will be met with derision. Proceed with caution.
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

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    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    Ah yes, the test of initiation Beware that any answer given will be met with derision. Proceed with caution.
    LOL, you are correct, there will be no right answer. Why does the saying "there can be only one" come to mind?

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