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Thread: Fleck 2500 control valve and help with softener maintenance

  1. #16
    DIY Junior Member ribs1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akpsdvan View Post
    Modern in what way?
    About the only thing there that is not Modern would be the valve because it is not digital.
    Most companies are only into selling new equipment.

    One finds a Model T that with a little work could be on the road again working.
    Do you pass it to the junk yard ?
    Do you work on it to put it on the road?
    I appreciate the sentiment. In fact, if I was one of you guys and knew how to rebuild this thing, I might. However, hiring it done would probably cost almost as much as a whole new system when you factor in new resin, rebuild the valve, new metered control etc. Also, I think this is a 1.5 cube unit and I really need a 2.5 or 3.

    I'm planning to buy a new softener online, put it together myself and hire a plumber to install. I will keep this old unit so I can tinker at my own pace. Might make a good iron filter for the sprinkler system or something.

  2. #17
    In the Trades Akpsdvan's Avatar
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    We all started knowing nothing about the systems that we work on today.
    You might even find some one that would sell you a rebuilt valve like yours and take yours as a core so that they could rebuild it for use later.
    Changing out the resin is as easy as up ending the tank and dumping it in to buckets and putting in the distributor and refilling with gravel bed and resin with the distributor plugged and putting the valve back on.

  3. #18
    Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek Mikey's Avatar
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    Default A similar problem

    Basic data: Well water, 8gpg hardness, 0.9 mg/L Iron, 7.5 pH, H2S < 0.1 Mn 0. 2 people, average water usage for the last 9 years is 105 gpd. Resin tank is a 10x54, 1.5 cu ft.

    According to Gary's sizing chart, I need 1392 Daily Grains of Capacity, so I need 11136 Total Grains of capacity for once-per-week regeneration with a 24-hr reserve. I understand all that, but unfortunately Gary's next step says to set my control valve for a capacity of 12,800, and my old-fashioned valve just has pins and skipper wheels. It's a Fleck controller of unknown lineage left with a couple of Service Manuals (one for "2510 and 2510 Econominder", and one for "2750 Downflow Control Valve") that may or may not apply, but in any case seem to be written for somebody who knows what he's doing, which would not be me, yet.

    Based on the manual, I think I've got a 3200 Timer, but I'm not sure about the valve. Can anybody tell me from the attached pictures what it might be, and how I convert from modern-day digital advice to pins-in-pinwheels?

    Front view:
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    Back of timer:
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    Behind:
    Name:  Softener head-rear-compressed.jpg
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  4. #19
    In the Trades Akpsdvan's Avatar
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    If you would like to change yours to a metered system.. all that you would need is the 3210 assembly that has the meter and the meter with a right angle dome with cable.

    The digital is a 24volt, so that would need a new main motor along with the sxt timer and the 3/4 turbin and a transformer..

  5. #20
    Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek Mikey's Avatar
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    I'm not that enamored of a metered system, to be honest. The present system has provided us with acceptable water, but I have no idea if it's set up optimally for our water and usage.

  6. #21
    In the Trades Akpsdvan's Avatar
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    How often is your system cleaning?
    Every 6 or 12days?
    It is a bit hard to tell in the photo how many pins in the 12 day wheel are out.
    It is a bit hard to tell the number of pins and spaces that make up the total time on the timer wheel on the back side of the timer.

    Bottom line has there been days that the water was not GOOD?
    If the water has been good 365 days then what is the problem?

    Some like to make others think there is a problem when there is none.

  7. #22
    Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek Mikey's Avatar
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    I've tried regenerating several periods, from every 3, 4, 6, and 12 days, and don't feel much difference in the water. So, the temptation is to leave it at every 12 days, and test for hardness over time, but it just seems to me that there should be a way to calculate the optimal interval. Don't know what I would do if the calculation said 9 days, which is the only argument for a "modern" timer that I can see.

    Pins in the timer wheel are: 0 2 4 6 8, 70 72 74, 82 84

    Same situation in the carbon filter as far as regeneration period.

    Pins in the timer wheel are: 0 2 4 6 8, 16 18, 24 26

  8. #23
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    Basic data: Well water, 8gpg hardness, 0.9 mg/L Iron, 7.5 pH, H2S < 0.1 Mn 0. 2 people, average water usage for the last 9 years is 105 gpd. Resin tank is a 10x54, 1.5 cu ft.

    According to Gary's sizing chart, I need 1392 Daily Grains of Capacity, so I need 11136 Total Grains of capacity for once-per-week regeneration with a 24-hr reserve. I understand all that, but unfortunately Gary's next step says to set my control valve for a capacity of 12,800, and my old-fashioned valve just has pins and skipper wheels. It's a Fleck controller of unknown lineage left with a couple of Service Manuals (one for "2510 and 2510 Econominder", and one for "2750 Downflow Control Valve") that may or may not apply, but in any case seem to be written for somebody who knows what he's doing, which would not be me, yet.

    Based on the manual, I think I've got a 3200 Timer, but I'm not sure about the valve. Can anybody tell me from the attached pictures what it might be, and how I convert from modern-day digital advice to pins-in-pinwheels?
    The lbs of salt used per regeneration dictate the K of capacity. I.E. i you need 13,000 (13K) you divide the 13,000 by the salt efficiency you want, I use 3333 grains/lb. So 13,000/3333 = the lbs of salt you need; that's total lbs not per cuft.

    On your valve you set the amount of water required to dissolve 3lbs/gallon based on your BLFC which usually is .5gal/min which is 1.5 lbs/min.

    The valve should be the 2510 and the minutes of brine refill is what you need to set. IIRC, with a black brine control valve cam, that is the holes before the last two pins. Each hole or pin is 2 minutes. The BLFC info should be on a sticker etc. somewhere on the valve, IIRC usually by where the drain line connects to the valve.

    Again IIRC (it's been awhile since I programed a 2510)... The first set of pins is backwash, then a pause, then slow rinse/brine draw, then rinse, then pause then brine refill and then back to service.

    The primary reason for a metered valve is to reduce water and salt use but a day timer usually works well for a household that has a more or less constant water use pattern but still will use more water and salt.

    IMO to change yours to a metered version would be more expensive than buying a new valve. And if you were thinking of doing that you'd be better off replacing the whole softener.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  9. #24
    Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    IMO to change yours to a metered version would be more expensive than buying a new valve. And if you were thinking of doing that you'd be better off replacing the whole softener.
    Thanks, Gary. I do have a black cam (which the 2510 manual calls an "STF" cam). Haven't noticed any BLFC stickers but I'll look for it. If a new valve would save water & salt, I'd maybe be interested, but I wonder what you mean by replacing the "whole softener". All that's left if I replace the valve is the tank and the brine tank, which don't look like they need replacing. Unless the tailpiece and bypass assembly wouldn't mate up with the new valve, presumably a Fleck of some kind? If I do change, now is the time, since I'm rearranging the whole system for several reasons.

  10. #25
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    If you do change it, the 2510SXT, 5600 Econominder, 5600SXT, Pro-flo, 5800SXT, and 6700 all use the same tailpeice and bypass. The 7000SXT uses a larger bypass different tailpieces (plumbing connectors).

    The standard way of programming a timeclock softener is as follows

    System capacity / hardness = systems total gallon capacity, / by average daily gallon usage= days between regeenrations, - 1 day (reserve)

    Example, if this is a 1.5 cu. ft system and it is set to 6 pounds of salt per cu. ft. or 9 lbs total, the system would be rated for a total of 30,000 grains. divide that by the actual hardness of 15 grains = 2000 gallons total capacity. Average daily water usage should be approximately 120 gallons, so 2000 gallons total capacity / 120 gallons average daily usage = 16 days between regenerations. You should set it to 12 days and you will be fine.

    Hope this helps.

  11. #26
    DIY Senior Member mialynette2003's Avatar
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    It looks to me that the sticker has fallen off. If you look at where the brine line connects to the brine valve, it appears the sticker was there which wrapped aroung the brine valve. To check the BLFC flow rate, put the unit in a refill cycle, disconnect the brine tubing from the float assembly and measure for 1 minute. I would say it has a .5 BLFC which is a standard size but not possitive.

  12. #27
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    Looks like the black sticker, .5 GPM, 1.5# salt per minute. I think I see some silver printing on the sticker, I have tried to enhance the BLFC, what do you think?
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  13. #28
    Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek Mikey's Avatar
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    Good job of photoenhancing; I'll recommend you to the NRO. I enhanced it a whole lot more by cleaning the grime off the sticker, and right you are. I think I'm in good shape for now; any opinions/recommendations re 2510SXT, 5600 Econominder, 5600SXT, Pro-flo, 5800SXT, and 6700?

  14. #29
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    My personal preference of those valves, the 2510SXT for now, maybe the 5800SXT in the near future once we have a few more months on the test bench with it. The 2510SXT is a workhorse, the only problem with it is the turbine meter. These usually last for a very long time, but when they do fail, they are very expensive to replace. All of the Fleck valves share the same meter except for the 7000 which uses a much better, cheaper, more reliable meter. That being said, I only replace a few of the 2510/5600/5800 meter assemblies a month, for the massive number of them out in the field, that is an amazing number and proves just how incredibely reliable the part is. The main problem with the meter is when people allow the weight of the plumbing to hang on it, so it is not really the meters problem, more of an installation issue. Other than that, the 2510 series Fleck valve is a great choice.

  15. #30
    Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek Mikey's Avatar
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    Thanks again. Anybody who goes through over 20 tons of underbedding gravel per month is probably worth listening to. I'm going to hang on to the one I'm using for now, and wait for the Lotto people to pick the right numbers before switching to something fancy.

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