Toto Promenade 1.28 or 1.6?

[brucet99]

Toto Promenade is the only high version with round bowl, so it will fit in the same tight space as the poor-flushing Wellworth it will replace. So the only choice left is 1.28 gpf or 1.6 gpf?

There is no rebate in my area for going with 1.28 flush. There are only two users, so the extra water use of 1.6gpf would amount to about 2 gal per day.

Since the bowl and tank are the same for both flush rates, it seems to me that the 1.6 version, running 25% more water through the same trap way, should be less likely to clog than the 1.28. Toto spokesman's answer to my question was, "We designed our 1.28 gpf toilets to perform as good or better than a 1.6 gpf." If he's right, then it's better to save the 2 gal per day.

What say you?

[Gary Swart]

All of the reports thus far on 1.28 gpf Totos are positive. There seems to be no difference. Toto is coming out soon with .8 gpf toilets that reportedly will also function just fine. I think the thing that many folks just don't realize is that Toto engineers are working very hard to design low flow toilets that work. They don't just tweek the old flush valves or add some fancy pressure tank to the old designs. I believe I'd go with the 1.28 model.

[BobL43]

Toto Promenade is the only high version with round bowl, so it will fit in the same tight space as the poor-flushing Wellworth it will replace. So the only choice left is 1.28 gpf or 1.6 gpf?

There is no rebate in my area for going with 1.28 flush. There are only two users, so the extra water use of 1.6gpf would amount to about 2 gal per day.

Since the bowl and tank are the same for both flush rates, it seems to me that the 1.6 version, running 25% more water through the same trap way, should be less likely to clog than the 1.28. Toto spokesman's answer to my question was, "We designed our 1.28 gpf toilets to perform as good or better than a 1.6 gpf." If he's right, then it's better to save the 2 gal per day.

What say you?

I can only speak for the 1.6 round bowl Promenade I installed in my new bathroom several months ago, which I purchased for the same reason (smaller size) and its traditional styling.
We have had absolutely no issues with it

[wjcandee]

Seems like the "official" testing tends to show that they technically flush a little less with 1.28.

In the real world, however, most people say that as a practical matter in actual use by most people, they don't notice the difference (probably because they are not flushing a toilet-clogging amount of material with every trip to the restroom). If you have an unusually-bulky session, you can always hold the handle down a second and you'll get a little more water in the flush. The right way is usually to push and release. (And to be surprised at how quickly the flush occurs.)

One member here says that he has a 1.6 Drake and 1.28 Drake. He thinks the 1.28 flushes every bit as well as the 1.6.

And as has been mentioned, you might as well get the 1.28. If you don't like the flush, you can swap the flapper for the Korky "Fits Toto" Red flapper and you will have the same flush as the 1.6. Or even the Blue Korky Toto Power Gravity Flapper for even a little more water on the flush. Most people who become comfortable buying the 1.28 when they realize they have this backup plan universally tell us that they got the 1.28 and it is fine.

The backup plan induces them to get the 1.28. Then they are so happy with the 1.28 that they never go with the backup plan.

[brucet99]

[QUOTE=wjcandee;352433]And as has been mentioned, you might as well get the 1.28. If you don't like the flush, you can swap the flapper for the Korky "Fits Toto" Red flapper and you will have the same flush as the 1.6. Or even the Blue Korky Toto Power Gravity Flapper for even a little more water on the flush.

Thanks for the suggestion.

How does just the flapper alone control the amount of water per flush? Does the 1.6 flapper "float open" longer perhaps?

[jadnashua]

Some of it is how long the flapper valve stays open, but also some of it is on how closely they've calibrated the fill valve. For minimum water usage, the bowl/tank balance must be as close to perfect as possible - the valve only knows about the tank, the water to the bowl must be calibrated to just fill the bowl to full without overflowing and running down the drain. Not getting enough in the bowl means a poor flush as some of the next flush water needs to refill it before it can flush properly and there may not be enough so it takes a second flush.

[wjcandee]

[QUOTE=brucet99;352493]

And as has been mentioned, you might as well get the 1.28. If you don't like the flush, you can swap the flapper for the Korky "Fits Toto" Red flapper and you will have the same flush as the 1.6. Or even the Blue Korky Toto Power Gravity Flapper for even a little more water on the flush.

Thanks for the suggestion.

How does just the flapper alone control the amount of water per flush? Does the 1.6 flapper "float open" longer perhaps?

Getting down from 1.6 to 1.28 total water used per cycle of the toilet involves all the things that Jim mentions: basically wringing out efficiency in the amount of water used in the refill of the bowl without overfilling, using a little less water in the actual flush (i.e. the amount of water that rushes through the flush valve into the tank to push out the waste) , etc.

Switching from the flapper used in the E-version to the flapper used in the G-Max version means that the flapper stays open a smidge longer, so a larger amount of the water in the tank is dispensed during the actual flush (the water used to push the waste out of the bowl). On the 1.28s, for a while they were shipping the same flapper as the GMax with a weight attached to make it close faster; then Terry mentioned that they revised this setup by eliminating the weight and instead drilling an extra hole in the flapper so it closed faster. Reverse the procedure, and voila, you have the 1.6 flush. And what I mean by that is that roughly the same amount of water will leave the tank to push out the waste. (Because you use a little more water in the flush, the tank will refill for a little longer time and you will lose a little refill water down the drain because the bowl will reach its settling point before the tank is fully-refilled. So the total amount of water used in the cycle won't be exactly the same as the G-Max, but the amount of water used to shove the waste down the drain will be about the same as the G-Max. Even more if you use the blue Korky flapper if you can find it.)

So you have that possibility as a backup if you don't like the 1.28 flush. But it turns out almost everyone is fine with it.